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Joseph Woodard Davis, b 1878

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  • Joseph Woodard Davis, b 1878

    Hello All,

    I've joined your forums in the hope that somebody will be able to offer clues on my great grandfather, where my research has got stuck. I'm going to post everything I know about him, so apologies if this is a bit long. I would really appreciate any tips you can offer.

    Joseph Woodard Davis married Amy Alice Annison nee Kite 3rd December 1910, at St Michaels' Camden Town. He was 32, a widower, a labourer & lived at 25 Hawley Cresent. His father is listed as unknown. One of the witnesses was a Ma(r?)y Ann Woodard. I have tried to follow her up but not got very far.

    On the 1911 census they are listed as Joseph & Amy Alice Woodard (i.e. not Davis), living at 24 Kentish Town Road, he is still a labourer. I know it is them because some of Amy Alice's children from her first marriage are living with them, under the surname Annison. This census shows Joseph was born c1878 in Camden Town.

    Births & deaths of their children (all listed under Davis) show them at the following addresses, with Joseph working as follows:
    * Dec 1911, 124 Kentish Town Road (general labourer)
    * Oct 1913, 40 Kentish Town Road, (bricklayer's labourer)
    * Nov 1913, 140 Kentish Town Road, (general labourer)
    * May 1920, 140 Kentish Town Road, (builder's labourer, ex army)

    Joseph joined the Royal Engineers as a sapper in 1915 (number 108385), (as J W Davis), From what I can understand of the papers, he was certified as a proficient electrician & put his trade as electrician on joining up, and also said that he had served for 10 years in the Navy in the past and / or as a "submarine miner" (it is unclear if he means these as 2 distinct things or the same thing). He served in 122nd & 155th battalions Royal Engineers. It seems strange to me that he was an electrician for his war service, but not working as one before or after the war.

    He died in 1940 in the North Middlesex County Hospital, at this time he was living in Boyton Road, Hornsey. The informant of his death was an E. Ellard, relationship "causing the body to be buried", I have understood this to mean this is the undertaker having to do it because there is no one closer around, but interestingly the residence of the informant is the same address as Joseph's. From family stories I believe at this time he was, or had been for some time, estranged from his children. Amy Alice died in 1930.

    So I would like to know more about what he was doing before 1910, e.g.:
    * his parents - apparently he was illegitimate so I realise I am unlikely to ever find out who his father was but is 'Woodard' as a middle name a clue? Strange that Joseph & Amy Alice went by Woodard as a surname in 1911 but at no other time. Also the Woodard witness at their marriage is interesting. I haven't been able to find a likely looking record in the birth index for Joseph in the name of Woodard, but there are a couple of possible Joseph Davises, I have 2 certificates. One (Apr May Jun 1878 Middlesex, Vol 1a, Page 570) was born 21st June 1878 in Queen Charlotte's Hospital Marylebone Road to Isabella Davis, 4 Albany Mews Regents Park, no father listed. The other (Islington) has a father listed so is unlikely to be him.
    * His previous marriage / any children from this
    * His previous military service as a submarine miner - where could I find records of this & would they likely contain anything else about his background? I have ordered a book on the history of submarine mining...

    If anyone has any ideas on where I might go from here I would be very grateful.

    Thanks for reading this, Katie

  • #2
    Good to see you here Katie, I'm sure you'll get loads of help, it's a great forum.. :-)

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Katie, welcome to FTF.

      Just a small point - "causing the body to be buried" does often mean the undertaker but it can also mean the person who is arranging the funeral (and paying for it!).

      My friend died last year, I registered her death but because I was not present at the death, nor was I a relation, I appear as "causing the body to be cremated" because I was her executor (no family to do it). So "E.Ellard" could be his common law wife, maybe? Just a thought.

      OC

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      • #4
        Hello Katie, and welcome

        Don't know if you have Ancestry but I've been looking at the London School Admissions, there's a Jos Woodard born 27 April 1878 father Thos admitted to Hawley Crescent School, Camden admitted 24 Aug 1885 of 165 Arlington Road
        (click on this link) Jos Woodard
        Last edited by Jill on the A272; 13-10-12, 22:52. Reason: dodgy keyboar, letter missing

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        • #5
          Who was the other witness on the marriage cert....

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          • #6
            THere is some information about the Royal Engineers Submarine Miners on these webpages, as a place to start: http://www.fortgilkicker.co.uk/mining.htm and http://www.royalmarinesmuseum.co.uk/...miners-1914-19 and http://www.gwpda.org/naval/recsm.htm
            Diane
            Sydney Australia
            Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

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            • #7
              Wow, thank you all so much for the replies, Naomiatt was right, its a good forum!

              Hello Old Crone Holden. thanks, what you have said makes a lot more sense than 'he happened to live with an undertaker'... so I'll have a look into E. Ellard.

              Hello dicole. Thanks for the links. I know I have to spend some time getting my head around submarine miners, but I do find it confusing, especially because Joseph's service must have been before 1914, whereas much of the material seems to be about their activities in WW1. I'm hoping the book will be less confusing because it was written in 1910.

              Hello naomiatt. The other witness on Joseph's marriage cert was a Kate Edith ?Peste? ?Seste? (difficult to read surname). Don't think I'm aware of her otherwise.

              Hello Jill. yes I do have ancestry but was not aware of the school admission record you found, so thanks very much for that. I got pretty excited about this, because of the links to what I do know, i.e. he put Camden Town as his birthplace on the 1911 census, and because he was living in Hawley Crescent when he married in 1910 (although this is a lot later!). So I started looking for census information about Joseph Wood*ard with a Thomas as his father, and found the following:
              1881: Harwood St, St Pancras
              * Thomas Woodward, 28, Carman, b Camden Town;
              * Mary A Woodward (fits with witness), 25, b Wood Green;
              * Joseph Woodward, 2, b Camden Town, also Thomas 12 months

              1891: Molesworth Road, Lewisham:
              * Thomas Woodward, 35, Labourer general, b St Pankhurst (is this corrupted St Pancras? have never heard of it before and google search only finds it in jokes about how St Pancras may be renamed);
              * Mary A Woodward (fits with witness), 34, b Tottenham;
              * Joseph Woodward, 12, shop assistant, b St Pankhurst;
              * also Charles, William, Frederick

              I have also found on the 1911 at Arlington Road St Pancras (matches with school admission, though much later)
              * Thomas Woodard, 58, road gully man, b Camden Town
              * Mary Ann Woodard, 54, b Wood Green
              They had been married 26 years with 10 children, 5 of these still living.

              So there are some things that tie all these together and I am tempted. But I am worried about leaping into it & jumping to conclusions on smaller things like places being near each other (except Lewisham is a long way from other places they lived) because of the big issues, i.e. why did he put father unknown on his marriage cert, and where does the 'Davis' come from?

              But I suppose if the 1911 census suggests Mary Ann & Thomas married in 1885, which still fits with Thomas enrolling Joseph in school at that time, perhaps Thomas wasn't Joseph's biological father. But (if they are the same people...) the family are all together on the 1881 census.

              Apologies for thinking out loud, I definitely have more to go on so thanks for all your help, and of course I'd appreciate any further thoughts!
              Katie

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              • #8
                Here are the witnesses at Joseph's marriage to Amy Alice. Any ideas on Kate Edith's surname? thanks, KatieJoseph Woodard Davis Amy Alice Annison marriage witnesses.jpg

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                • #9
                  I'd have said the surname was SCOTT.

                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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                  • #10
                    Kate Edith Scott looks like a daughter to a Thomas and Mary Ann https://www.familysearch.org/search/...ion_id=1473014 Me thinks this may be a bit of a puzzle

                    Edna

                    https://www.familysearch.org/search/...ion_id=1473014 More children to look at if this couple can be linked in
                    Last edited by clematised; 15-10-12, 00:59.

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                    • #11
                      Hello Christine, thanks for the translation as Scott, I agree.

                      Hello Edna, thanks for the ideas, but have to admit to being a bit confused - are you proposing that Kate Edith Scott (witness) is Joseph's (groom) sister? The parish record you found shows her ~20 years older than him, and although her parents are called Thomas & Mary Ann (like his), their surname is Scott. Sorry if I'm missing something. I agree with you its a puzzle though!

                      Thanks, Katie

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                      • #12
                        Sorry Katie I think I may have been confused due to the lateness of the hour just forget that one

                        Edna

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