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Welsh research..suspect info.

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  • Welsh research..suspect info.

    I am currently researching the Owen family of Cefnys Gwyd, Llechylched, Anglesey, Wales for a family history project.

    I have found the family is listed in "Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families: with Their Collateral Branches in Denbighshire, Merionethshire (1914), Griffith, John Edwards" which claims to be compiled from 'reliable sources'. However I am very suspect of this as it traces the family back to a Richard ab Owain, son of Owain ab Hugh, High Sherrif of Anglesey during the reign of Elizabeth I, BUT the information given for Owain is as follows

    Wife 1: Sibyl Griffith
    1. Sir Huw Owen (alias Huw ab Owain), Knight, b. 1547, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey, d. 1613
    2. William Owen (alias William ab Owain), b. 1548, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    3. Jane ferch Owain, b. 1549, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    4. John Owen (alias John ab Owain), b. 1551, of, London, Middlesex,
    5. Lewys Owen (alias Lewys ab Owain), Bishop of Casnao, b. 15 Dec 1553, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey, Wales d. 14 Oct 1594
    6. Jasper Owen (alias Jasper ab Owain), b. 1554, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey, Wales
    7. Gwen ferch Owain, b. 1555, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    8. Randel ab Owain, b. 1557, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    9. Rowland ab Owain, b. 1559, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    10. Elen ferch Owain, b. 1560, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    11. Morus ab Owain, b. 1561, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    12. Catrin ferch Owain, b. 1563, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    13. Robert ab Owain, b. Abt 1565, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    14. Edward ab Owain, b. Abt 1567, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,

    Wife 2: Elsbeth Gruffyd
    1. Richard Owen (alias Richard ab Owain), b. Abt 1550, of, Cefnysgwyd, Llechylched, Anglesey
    2. Mary ferch Owain, b. Abt 1570, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,
    3. Elen ferch Owain, b. Abt 1530, of, Bôdeon, Llangadwaladr, Anglesey,

    Online I can find no other trace of this supposed second marriage where the Cefnys Gwyd Owen's apparantly descend from, just references to his first wife. The dates of the first 14 children seems pretty firm for a marriage 1547-67 approximately. So Richard's birth would be in that time frame. The supposed births of his siblings 1530 and 1570 seem ridiculously off too. And the fact Richard is the only one linked to Cefnys Gwyd rather than Bodeon.

    I'm inclined to dismiss this as him being tacked on to this family for their prestigious heritage which goes back to the Welsh princes, William the Conqueror, etc but I do wonder whether I am being too hasty. After all there must be some reason he was linked to them in this work. I wondered if anyone here might be able to shed any light, as Welsh research this far back as new to me.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Richard; 11-10-12, 19:58.

  • #2
    I would treat it like any other piece of unsourced information .... i.e. at best as a potential guide for your own research.

    The fact it was published in a book a hundred years ago makes it no more reliable than any unsourced Ancestry tree today (and as we all know they can be complete fabrication). As you point out many families invented "connections" for all sorts of political/status reasons, many of which are dutifully reproduced in many reference publications (Burke's Peerage is full of them !)
    Last edited by AntonyM; 12-10-12, 10:16.
    Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
    Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

    Comment


    • #3
      From what you have shown above the dates for the children from 2 wives do not make sense eg Richard born 1550 to Elsbeth whilst at the same time Jane born 1549 to Sybil !!
      If these children are all from Richard then he had two women at the same time and could not have been legally married to them both!

      So as has been said you need to check backwards carefully from a proved start point to find the tree. Records before 1837 are church parish registers and other documents which are not necessarily online and at the time the original research was done would have been very time consuming and hard to find.

      Much caution is needed when looking at someone else's research as you can never be sure how thorough and rigorous they have been about their findings.

      Margaret

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Margaret and Antony

        Your are very much in line with my own thoughts. I do have plenty of experience researching pre-1837, but not Welsh, and I'm guessing if they are anything like English records, or Scottish, parish records from the 16th century are not going to be too illuminating anyway. The above information of course cannot be correct, and lots of things ringing alarm bells, but I'm reluctant to totally right it off, as there may be a grain of truth in it, and just the dates are wrong etc.

        Comment


        • #5
          To clarify my own thoughts a bit further, I am thinking since the birth dates are so clearly off it is unlikely this information is from existent parish records, but since Owain ab Hugh was High Sherrif of Anglesy, it seems fairly likely he left a will, and perhaps the source of this second marriage and children, presuming it isn't total fabrication, comes from this. However I have no experience of where to source Welsh Wills pre-1837. I have looked on http://www.archiveswales.org.uk without any luck, so was hoping someone might have a better idea where to look or perhaps even find the reference for the will for me.

          Thanks
          Last edited by Richard; 12-10-12, 10:54.

          Comment


          • #6
            Slightly off topic but:

            Employing my own rule of carefully checking anyone else's research, I did just that with a tree sent to me by a contact - we shared a 10 x GGP (I think!). his tree had branched off to the great and the good and all was carefully recorded in detail in Burkes.

            I cross checked every detail with independent sources, starting in the present and working back. Took me several full evenings and some library work. All was absolutely spot on...until we got to the bit where his tree joined mine........WRONG, a stupid elementary mistake he had made which would have been obvious if he had checked the parish register.

            I cannot tell you what an idiot I felt, a very CROSS idiot, that I had not checked from the "bottom up" rather than from the top down, lol.

            So, the moral is that you have to check EVERY fact, each single one, because it only takes one tiny mistake to make the whole thing rubbish.

            OC

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi OC

              Yep, I think we've all been there at some point in our research! I'm methodical these days, but was a different story starting out....

              This particular family is not my own but for a book I am half way through writing. I am satisfied the line does stretch back nine generations to Richard, and his descendants were fairly well off, so there was some money here which would not be inconsistent with the posited link to Owain ap Hugh, the High Sheriff, but I'm certainly not going to run with it based on the evidence above, which has the distinct feeling of being 'tacked on'!
              Last edited by Richard; 12-10-12, 11:40.

              Comment


              • #8


                When I was researching my Welsh family from Anglesey I used this site as all the wills were readable on line and at very little cost to have them sent to you through the post.

                Edna
                http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/ch...en&skin=profeb this will take you to the page but you have to become a member
                Last edited by clematised; 12-10-12, 12:03.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You can also search for marriage bonds on there

                  Edna

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks Edna will check that out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      i guess you could email the archives and explain your looking for that man's will, could they tell you where it is?

                      Comment

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