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Can anyone see him on the 1891 Census please?

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  • Can anyone see him on the 1891 Census please?

    I have found my late Grandfather, William James Wilson (1860-1937) on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses for Wales. On both Censuses he is living in St Helens Road, Swansea, married to my Grandmother, Margaret Rees, and is working as a House Painter and Decorator.

    As I am unable to find a definate Birth Entry for him, (on both the 1901 and 1911 Censuses he gives his place of birth as 'Manchester, Lancs'.) I am having another look at the 1891 Censuses for England and Wales to see if I can find him. I can't see him, - but perhaps someone on here might?

    Here's hoping...
    Holly.

  • #2
    FMP has the marriage of William & Margaret in its parish records - 22 June 1893, Swansea - he gives his age as 32 and father as William Wilson (Deceased), a Mason. Residence at the time of marriage "Lower Oxford St"
    Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
    Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

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    • #3
      Originally posted by AntonyM View Post
      FMP has the marriage of William & Margaret in its parish records - 22 June 1893, Swansea - he gives his age as 32 and father as William Wilson (Deceased), a Mason. Residence at the time of marriage "Lower Oxford St"
      Thanks for looking Antony.

      Yes, - I have that Marriage Cert. The Witnesses are the Bride's Father and Sister, - and so no clues there(!)

      I had thought that if he was in Swansea in 1893, - that he would have been there for the 1891 Census. However, I am unable to find him in either England or Wales:-( He might have been mistranscribed of course, - but I've tried the usual mis-spellings.
      Any ideas welcomed, Holly.

      Comment


      • #4
        Holly,

        where did he die please? what were the ages on the marriage cert? maybe he adjusted his age to be nearer his brides age?
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
          Holly,

          where did he die please? what were the ages on the marriage cert? maybe he adjusted his age to be nearer his brides age?
          Hello Darksecretz,

          William James Wilson died at Redhill Nursing Home, Hendon on the 29th December 1937, aged 77yrs, - (on Death Cert). He was buried in Kingsbury Parish Church Graveyard in January 1938. Margaret died of kidney failure in Wembley in 1934, she is also buried in Kingsbury.

          On the Marriage Cert, on the 22nd June 1893, in Swansea Parish Church, William James gives his age as 32yrs, Margaret Rees is 26yrs. The Witnesses were the Bride's Father and Sister, Evan and Selina Rees. The Groom's father is given as 'William Wilson, (Deceased) Occupation: Mason'.

          Comment


          • #6
            don't get your hopes up just yet, but, I might have found a possible. [though at the moment I am having great trouble finding them on any previous census!]

            1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...try&h=16180926
            Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3845; Folio: 22; Page: 39; GSU roll: 841926.

            the father is William a Stone Mason. :smilee:
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
              don't get your hopes up just yet, but, I might have found a possible. [though at the moment I am having great trouble finding them on any previous census!]

              1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...try&h=16180926
              Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3845; Folio: 22; Page: 39; GSU roll: 841926.

              the father is William a Stone Mason. :smilee:
              Hi Darksecretz,

              I see from my notes that I had saved that one to my shoebox on Ancestry...but I don't think that I could find them on the other Censuses.
              There are certainly quite a few Births for William James Wilsons under the West Derby Registration area, - but I wonder why he was so definate about coming from Manchester?
              I've been trying to narrow down his Birth again...This is what I have:
              He's 32yrs on his Marriage Cert in June 1893.
              He's 40yrs on the 1901 Census.
              He's 51yrs on the 1911 Census.
              He's 77yrs on his Death Cert, - he died in Hendon, Middx on the 29th December 1937.

              I think that must mean an 1860 Birth?

              Comment


              • #8
                I know what you mean, though generally I have often found that the yr on the census form for birth is a yr out. I have been looking to see if I can find them on any other census but I can't. they are possibly mangled and not easily found. I do remember that 'some' Manchester parts of the census got water damaged, so they could be in those. It might be that even though he was born in Liverpool, that they moved there [to Manchester] and that is what he remembered.
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #9
                  I suppose another place to look might be West Derby Christenings and Baptisms? That would hopefully give the parent's names? Where is the best place to look?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    am not sure, the other options I would look at are:

                    Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                    FreeReg and Lancs BMD site, they might help.

                    I am still struggling to find any of them in earlier/later census, though I guess if William Sr dies, Jane might have remarried.
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      IF his age is correct at marriage and the other censes (and it's a big IF), then his birth should have fallen after June 22nd 1860 and before June 22nd 1861. This would narrow it down to 7 births!! One in Liverpool, 2 in West Derby and the other 4 in Preston, Gt Ouseburn, Cockermouth and Ulverstone.

                      I think this is the one in 1871 born Ulverstone as Kirkby Ireleth comes under that - Father William, a slate quarrier.


                      That's one down - 6 to go lol
                      Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 25-09-12, 11:08.
                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There are 2 other William J Wilson in 1871, born in Liverpool about the right time, both with father James.
                        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There are just so many possible William Wilsons' with father William that's it's impossible to be sure from the census. Julies' looks good of course, if you could check that he was born William James Wilson. I think you need the baptism.
                          Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Chrissie,

                            Many Thanks for looking for me.

                            I've been trying to find him (off and on:-) for about 30yrs now. Over the years I've ordered about 10 Birth Certs, - none of which have fitted the info given on the Marriage Cert in Swansea. Btw, on June 22nd 1893 he gives his age as 32yrs.

                            I've just looked at Baptisms on Ancestry...nothing jumps out:-(

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't suppose either of them left a Will? or have family photos of great aunt flo etc?? that might give a teeny clue?
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                                IF his age is correct at marriage and the other censes (and it's a big IF), then his birth should have fallen after June 22nd 1860 and before June 22nd 1861. This would narrow it down to 7 births!! One in Liverpool, 2 in West Derby and the other 4 in Preston, Gt Ouseburn, Cockermouth and Ulverstone.
                                I think this is the one in 1871 born Ulverstone as Kirkby Ireleth comes under that - Father William, a slate quarrier.

                                That's one down - 6 to go lol
                                Chrissie, - the Kirkby Ireleth one looked good until the 1911 Census became available. On that, he's still single/living at home in Kirkby Ireleth/working as a Labourer, - wheras my Grandfather is living at 93 St helens Road, Swansea, married to my Grandmother and has 6 sons!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I have just looked on family search but of course it doesn't give fathers occupation. There are so many possibilities I'm afraid. People changed their names, ages and made up fathers names and occupations. So we don't even know if all the facts are true. If he is telling the truth about his fathers name and occupation the one that Julie found looks the most likely possibility but he may have just been named William (no James).
                                  Have you looked to see whether anyone else has him in their tree on Ancestry etc? Maybe they have managed to work it out?
                                  Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                    I don't suppose either of them left a Will? or have family photos of great aunt flo etc?? that might give a teeny clue?
                                    No, - I've found their Burials (at St Andrews, Kingsbury, Middx) on Ancestry, but can't find any Probate Entries:-(
                                    My late father, (son of WJ Wilson) died when I was 5, and was 30 yrs older than my mother, - and so no one left alive to ask:-(

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I didn't follow that one through Holly as it was just one of many possibilities. You would need to follow them all and that isn't easy when it could be Manchester, Liverpool, West Derby etc.
                                      Julie is right, I think you need to question the family for any more clues i.e. did they ever meet or hear of any of his relatives names? Are there any family photos etc.
                                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Sorry, I've only just seen your last message.
                                        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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