William Gilbert 1831 - 1864 Devon possibly lived in Canada

[dahaniuk]

My Great Great Great Uncle William J Gilbert was born c1831 in Luffincott, Devon. He had three Children with Eliza ? born c1826 Lifton, Devon. I cannot find a marriage for William and Eliza. Their first (I think) Child William was born 1859 in Boyton, Cornwall which is not far away from Luffincott, Devon, as far as I can tell but on the 1861 Census it says William (Son) was born in Upper Canada and in the 1871 Census William (Son) was born in North America Cannada (sic). Apart from William there was Mary Ann born 1860 Boyton and Fanny born 1862 Northcott Hamlet. The Children do not appear to have their births registered but Mary Ann and Fanny were baptised I found these on the Cornwall Database. Therefore I cannot buy Birth Certificates to find out Eliza's maiden name. I have noticed on other peoples trees that William married Elizabeth Royall in Devonport/Stoke Damerell, Devon but I have ruled this out by looking at the Marriage Certificate on Find My Past. I can only imagine that William met/married Eliza in Canada or didn't marry her at all, I cannot find any evidence they went to or lived in Canada. I would dearly love to find out Eliza's maiden name as I have all Births Marriage and Deaths for William's Sisters and Brother this is the only one missing. William died of concussion of spine 3 months exhaustion on the 8th October 1864 his occupation was a Farm Labourer so I don't know if he had some sort of accident? Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.

[Darksecretz]

hmmn,

this is 1861: states that Eliza was born in Lifton-Devon..

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=will**+j&gsln=gilb**&msbdy=1831&msbpn__ftp=Devon%2c+England&msbpn=5261&msbpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5261%7c0%7c0%7c&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=11&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=16073111&db=uki1861&indiv=1

maybe upper Canada was an area in Devon that only locals called it?? i'll have another look.

[Darksecretz]

ahh I now see William on here too.. as a farm labourer..

1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...&rhSource=8767

[Darksecretz]

do you have William Jr on any other census? I think this might be him in 1901

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=will**+&gsln=gilb**&msbdy=1859&msbpn__ftp=Canada&msbpn=3243&msbpn_PInfo=3-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c3243%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c&cpxt=1&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=11&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=11931473&db=uki1901&indiv=1

I know that you aren't necessarily looking for this, but it helps to build the picture up.

[dahaniuk]

Thank you for looking at this Julie I live in Devon and have never heard any area called Upper Canada, but I live in South Devon and this is North Devon/Cornwall border I hadn't actually thought of that? It is strange that there is no record of a marriage for William and Eliza and also I cannot find a baptism for William junior but I can for his Sisters? If he was born in Canada they must have returned fairly quickly afterwards as he was born c1859 and the family are in the 1861 Census. This Gilbert Family do have links to Bible Christians/Wesleyan so it might not have been unusual for them to go to Canada. I have in the past contacted the Lifton OPC but she could not find a marriage for them there. They didn't appear to register their Childrens births so they might have married in this country without registering it, would that have been possible? This family have been a puzzle for so long now and I keep coming back to them but get nowhere.

Jill

[David of Doncaster]

I guess it's probably already been dismissed but have you looked at this entry?

Fanny Gilbert 1st quarter 1864 5c 27 Launceston Cornwall

[David of Doncaster]

... also Mary Ann Gilbert Q3 1862 Truro
and Mary Ann Elizabeth Gilbert Q3 1862 Stoke Damerel

[Darksecretz]

I have been looking in Canada and there is a place there called 'upper Canada' [just to throw another spanner in the works!].. I can't seem to find ANY census prior to 1861 in Canada.. but am still looking, was William sr's middle name James?.. [sorry I'm jumping about here..]

[dahaniuk]

Thank you David I have seen Fanny Gilbert 1864 Launceston, Cornwall but that is two years out, Truro and Stoke Damerell Mary Anns are also two years out. Would they have registered two years after the births not sure? The name Gilbert in North Devon/Cornwall is very common if you go through Holsworthy Grave Yard (which we have done and it is quite big) there are loads of Gilbert Grave Stones. I think this family are a brick wall and I may never discover more about them.

[Darksecretz]

there is a William marrying in Launceston dist in 1857

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=0&f7=1857&f6=65&f8=Apr-May-Jun&f5=5c&db=FreeBMDMarriage

I did spot William in 1851 in St Giles on the Heath, and this is where Eliza is on the 1871 cens. [sorry am thinking out loud here]

[dahaniuk]

Thank you Julie I have William Junior in all of the census up to 1911 he settled in St Teath (pronounced St Teth) married Sarah Bickel in Camelford in 1881 and had 10 Children.

Yes William Seniors middle name was James I should have said that in my original posting.

Wikipedia says Upper Canada existed from 1791 to 1841 and is now Southern Ontario. Would they have called it Upper Canada almost 20 years later?

Jill

[dahaniuk]

Julie William Senior was in the 1841 in St Giles In The Heath aged 10 and a waggoner I couldn't understand why he wasn't with his family at first and thought he had died until I eventually found him. His Mother and newborn baby Brother died that year in December William was the eldest I don't know if that was why he was sent away I know they did that a lot in those days calling them apprentices etc.

Thank you for the marriage of William I will look into that now.

Jill

[JudithM]

I wouldn't rule out the Mar 1864 birth registration for Fanny Gilbert. Launceston is the correct district for Northcott where Fanny was born according to the 1871 census. An entry in the 1st Quarter of 1864 could refer to a birth in December or even late November 1863 meaning Fanny would have been perhaps 7yrs 4mnths in 1871 but parents may have seen her as being in her 8th years. The entry also fits nicely with her baptism in February 1864 in Northcott.

[Darksecretz]

Thank you Julie I have William Junior in all of the census up to 1911 he settled in St Teath (pronounced St Teth) married Sarah Bickel in Camelford in 1881 and had 10 Children.

Yes William Seniors middle name was James I should have said that in my original posting.

Wikipedia says Upper Canada existed from 1791 to 1841 and is now Southern Ontario. Would they have called it Upper Canada almost 20 years later?

Jill

I am not sure about whether they would still call it UC all those yrs later, but I suppose it could be possible.. I still call Jiff -Jiff [ciff!] and marathons by their known name.. [snickers..I ask you!! what a daft name!]

I did wonder if William sr left a will/Admon, but I cannot see one in the listing. I wonder if settlement orders or some sort of parish relief if she was widowed and didnt have an income might help?

I wouldn't rule out the Mar 1864 birth registration for Fanny Gilbert. Launceston is the correct district for Northcott where Fanny was born according to the 1871 census. An entry in the 1st Quarter of 1864 could refer to a birth in December or even late November 1863 meaning Fanny would have been perhaps 7yrs 4mnths in 1871 but parents may have seen her as being in her 8th years. The entry also fits nicely with her baptism in February 1864 in Northcott.

maybe a phone call to 'Truro' office might be helpful? if Jill queries about the father being William and an idea of where they may be living? [or at least explains the situation to them and they 'might' offer some sort of help??] am pretty sure now that all certs etc.. are localised at Truro, but it'd need checking just to be sure.

[Darksecretz]

ahh seems Launceston do still have a Reg office.. though there is an email address so might have more luck there?

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=14496

or maybe ring them and query with them.

just sorry I can't be of more help Jill.

[dahaniuk]

Would a registrar office talk to me about certificates I never have had that luck before?

Jill

[Night Owl]

I too wondered about that marriage Julie found in 1857. There are 2 females listed and one is Eliza Dawe.

I also wondered about this birth:

Q/E Sept 1860 Launceston Mary Ann Gilbird. This is transcribed from a typed list on FreeBMD and I think it may have been initially transcribed from a hand written GRO register. The date fits so it may be worth considering.

Re phoning local register offices - it depends who you get and how helpful they're feeling. I've spoken to some very helpful Yorkshire ones who, while they wouldn't tell me what was in the register, asked me what I thought was in there and then confirmed it was the right one so I could order the cert without wasting any more money.

[Darksecretz]

Would a registrar office talk to me about certificates I never have had that luck before?

Jill

I think if you explain the circumstances then they might be willing to help, as Jackie says sometimes you will get the odd one that is prepared to help you that little bit without you wasting money, I had one where I didnt know for definite, I filled in the details and said that the husband should be George and a coal miner possibly living in Byron St, and she came back with the correct death cert for me.

I too wondered about that marriage Julie found in 1857. There are 2 females listed and one is Eliza Dawe.

I also wondered about this birth:

Q/E Sept 1860 Launceston Mary Ann Gilbird. This is transcribed from a typed list on FreeBMD and I think it may have been initially transcribed from a hand written GRO register. The date fits so it may be worth considering.

Re phoning local register offices - it depends who you get and how helpful they're feeling. I've spoken to some very helpful Yorkshire ones who, while they wouldn't tell me what was in the register, asked me what I thought was in there and then confirmed it was the right one so I could order the cert without wasting any more money.

if you don't ask.. its worth a shot!

[Darksecretz]

I too wondered about that marriage Julie found in 1857. There are 2 females listed and one is Eliza Dawe.

I also wondered about this birth:

Q/E Sept 1860 Launceston Mary Ann Gilbird. This is transcribed from a typed list on FreeBMD and I think it may have been initially transcribed from a hand written GRO register. The date fits so it may be worth considering.

Re phoning local register offices - it depends who you get and how helpful they're feeling. I've spoken to some very helpful Yorkshire ones who, while they wouldn't tell me what was in the register, asked me what I thought was in there and then confirmed it was the right one so I could order the cert without wasting any more money.

might be as well, whoever heard the name with a west country accent didn't get it quite right!.. [wouldn't be the first time would it? ]

[bcbrit]

After 1841 Upper Canda and Lower Canada were known as Canada West and Canada East until 1867, when they then became Ontario and Quebec.

I looked for William Gilbert in the 1851 Canada West census , but no joy. The William Gilbert that was there is still in the same location 20 years later.

There is this on the New York Passengers List - I don't know whether this is your man as the occupation is out.

William Gilbert b. abt 1833, arrived in New York 16 August 1854, occupation Merchant, destination Canada.

In the 1850's it is estimated that upto one third of Cornwall emigrated due to the closure of mines and three years of extremely bad harvests.

I wonder if your William did this too ?

Also Canada was advertising for settlers. I wonder if it is worth looking in the papers of that time to see if there were any adverts in William's area ?

bcbrit