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Cornwall Record Office, Truro - EPPS baptism/Fowey/1721

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  • Record Office: Cornwall Record Office, Truro - EPPS baptism/Fowey/1721

    If anyone is planning to visit the CRO anytime in the near future, I’d be most grateful for a lookup.

    I am trying to confirm the possible baptism of a Josiah Epps (Apps, Eppes) in Fowey on October 30, 1721, who I believe may be my 5xgreat-grandfather. His parents, Josiah Epps and Ann (née Dowrick), were married in Fowey on June 13, 1717 and had a daughter Mary who was baptized there on October 14, 1718.

    For some reason, there are no Fowey baptisms in the Cornwall OPC database for the year 1721, although there are 34 baptisms for 1720 and 36 baptisms for 1722. I contacted the Fowey OPC, but she didn’t have any additional information. Likewise, while Mary Epps baptism shows up on FamilySearch, there is no sign of young Josiah - again, Fowey baptisms for 1721 seem to be missing.

    The possibility of a 1721 baptism for Josiah came from an Ancestry user, who found the information on this page*. However, that doesn't have his sister Mary's christening, which seems a bit odd. And I note that even the site's webmaster suggests "that before using any of the below records as SOURCE records, that you verify them…".

    If anyone can check the parish register and/or BT, it would be most appreciated.

    Regards –

    Tim

    * www.connorsgenealogy.com/Cornwall/FoweyRecords/Baptisms-C2.htm

    "If we're lucky, one day our names and dates will appear in our descendants' family trees."

  • #2
    you havn't mentioned, but have you looked on familysearch? they have cornwall registers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Tim

      If you are not in a desperate hurry I can do this for you.

      The reason for the delay is that CRO is always booked up for weeks ahead, so it may take me some time to get an appointment.

      OC

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
        you havn't mentioned, but have you looked on familysearch? they have cornwall registers.
        As mentioned, Josiah's parents' marriage and his sister's baptism do show up (as transcriptions) in a regular search, but Josiah's baptism does not. Unfortunately, the Fowey parish registers are not included in the browsable collection of scanned Cornwall PRs (these are a fabulous resource when the right dates/locations are available).

        Thanks very much for your interest and suggestion though -

        Tim
        "If we're lucky, one day our names and dates will appear in our descendants' family trees."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
          Tim

          If you are not in a desperate hurry I can do this for you.

          The reason for the delay is that CRO is always booked up for weeks ahead, so it may take me some time to get an appointment.

          OC
          OC -

          Thanks very much for your kind offer - yes, please! I'm not in any great hurry - until the last week or two, I had no expectation of finding out any more information about Josiah prior to his wedding in St. Endellion in 1749. I'm cautiously optimistic about this lead, though, and if it pans out it will extend my Apps line back at least two generations and establish that his family came to Cornwall from Sussex.

          I see the the CRO has reduced their hours, as so many other counties have been forced to do, so I'm particularly grateful for your help.

          Best regards,

          Tim
          "If we're lucky, one day our names and dates will appear in our descendants' family trees."

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Tim

            I haven't forgotten you - I am waiting for a reply to my email requesting a slot at CRO.

            OC

            Comment


            • #7
              OC -
              Are you able to make scans of original parish records? Have any extra time?

              Also, do you know if there are obits (at the RO or elsewhere) for immigrants who died in the US? I think I have a date for my g'g'grandfather's death, but can't find anything on this side to confirm it.

              thanks
              sarah

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                Hi Tim

                I haven't forgotten you - I am waiting for a reply to my email requesting a slot at CRO.

                OC
                Thank you so much, OC, for keeping me up to date but please be assured that I was not worried. You should only do this lookup if and when it's convenient - for you and the CRO! My only concern is that the records may be missing or illegible, since they seem to have escaped transcription by both the LDS and the OPCs.

                Hope you're having a lovely fall -

                Tim
                "If we're lucky, one day our names and dates will appear in our descendants' family trees."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Tim

                  I found it quite difficult to identify the records in the online catalogue and they have replied to me that they don't have them, lol.

                  All is not lost - I am going past the CRO this Thursday, so I shall drop in and have a look through the physical catalogue and make an appointment at the same time. Is there anything else you need while I'm looking through the register?

                  Sarah - I think it is possible to make scans of original material at the CRO but their charges are quite fierce, what was it you wanted? Obits may be in the local rag - give me a date and I'll have a look if I have time (which I should do!)

                  OC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi OC –

                    I searched for “Fowey parish church” on CROCAT and found the registers of baptisms, marriages and burials listed under P66/1. On closer inspection, though, I noticed that the record numbers seemed to jump from P66/1/1 to P66/1/4, suggesting a gap between 1708 and 1749. However, when I searched via the A2A site, it indicated that the ‘missing’ records are held by the CRO. Specifically, P66/1/2 is supposed to have:
                    Baptisms 1708-1749
                    Marriages 1708-1749
                    Burials 1708-1749

                    Hopefully, the physical catalogue can confirm this.

                    As for other lookups, if you have the time, perhaps you could see if there’s a baptism in Fowey for Josiah’s mother, Ann DOWRICK – I’m guessing it would have taken place sometime between 1685 and 1699, as she was married in 1717. There are marriages in Fowey for a Rebekah DOWRICK in 1715 and a Mary DOWRICK in 1719, so I’m guessing the three of them may have been sisters. Mary seems to have been baptized in 1695, but I couldn’t find a baptism for Ann or Rebekah anywhere in Cornwall, at least not on FamilySearch or in the OPC database.


                    Again, many thanks in advance for your generous offer.


                    Tim
                    "If we're lucky, one day our names and dates will appear in our descendants' family trees."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Tim

                      I dropped into the office today and we had a bit of a "discussion" lol, about whether they DO have the records or not. She finally conceded that they do indeed have 66/1/2...it just isn't on CROCAT "because it is on A2A".

                      To make up for this, I managed to squiggle into a cancellation slot tomorrow (Friday) afternoon so hopefully I will have some news for you tomorrow evening.

                      (66/1/2 is a film of the original PR, so that's as good as it will get, I think - apparently the actual physical register has been mislaid....). I mentioned that there appear to be several transcribed versions of this register floating around and she said that they accept written material from anyone who wishes to deposit it, so it is not an unusual situation to have several different transcripts and obviously they do not check any of them for accuracy etc as that is not their remit.

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oooh ... that's great news, OC! Thanks again!

                        I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when you had your bit of "discussion" .

                        I shall await your findings with bated breath and fingers crossed - even if I don't get the result I'm hoping for, it's always better to know.

                        TTFN -

                        Tim
                        "If we're lucky, one day our names and dates will appear in our descendants' family trees."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm back. Good news and bad news.

                          Good news:

                          Taken from film on fiche, of the original parish register for Fowey Church (66/1/2 Cornwall Records Office)

                          Baptism Josiah, son of Josiah and Ann Epps October 30 1721
                          Baptism Mary, daughter of Josiah and Anne Epps October 14 1718
                          Marriage Josiah Epps of H***sham (looks like Horsham) County Sussex (could be Surrey) and Ann Dowrick June 13 1717.

                          I looked a few years either side of 1721 but found no more baptisms.

                          I also confirmed the marriages of Rebecca and Mary Dowrick, although I couldn't read who they married!

                          Bad News:

                          Baptisms for 1543-1706, Fowey, filmed original on fiche.(FP 66/1/1)

                          Completely and utterly unreadable. Black on white. Blacker than night with the odd flash of white. I asked if I might look at the master copy and was told the master copy has been stolen. I said there was very little point in keeping these as no one can read them but was told stiffly that they never throw any records away. However, the only readable thing on all five fiche in this set was the information that they were films of registers "in the keeping of the Diocese of Exeter". So maybe not misplaced at all, lol.

                          The other thing I found, which won't help your research but explains a thing or two. On the shelves was a "Transcript of Fowey Registers". This turned out to be P66/1/5 and is the one done by Peter Isbell and is dated November 1962. It was indeed on two different sorts of typing paper but I think that just meant he ran out of one lot of paper and started using another packet. It covers 1750-1812 and there were no Apps/Epps entries at all (he did an index, nice man). Donated to CRO in November 1975.

                          OC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you! Thank you!! THANK YOU!!!

                            No bad news as far as I'm concerned – I got the information i was hoping for. While it would have been nice to have had Anne DOWRICK 's baptism, I think that getting this far back qualifies as a success.

                            According to Phillimore, Josiah Sr. was "of Shoreham co. Sussex", which accords very nicely with the baptism of a Josiah APPS in the parish of New Shoreham on Sept. 13, 1690. Sadly, his parents, Elizabeth and Chowne APPS, died soon after, being buried in that parish on Oct. 14 and Nov. 28 1690, respectively.

                            The discrepancy between the names EPPS and APPS is, I think, a minor one. Josiah Jr. (presumably) used the surname APPS when he married Loveday THOMAS in St. Endellion on Apr. 20, 1749, as did their children and later descendants (although sometimes spelled APSE).

                            All in all, a very satisfactory outcome. Thanks again, OC – you really are a star!
                            "If we're lucky, one day our names and dates will appear in our descendants' family trees."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh, it could well have said Shoreham, not Horsham - I did think the unreadable bit was too long for Horsham!

                              Glad the info was useful.

                              OC

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