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  • death of gt. grandfather

    My Gt. Grandfather, Sergeant John Waters, 3315, was discharged from the 40th regiment of Foot on 13th February 1877 following service in India for over four years. He was discharged from Dum Dum. His place of residence was to be Manchester. I have Gt. Grandma living in Manchester on the 1881 census, along with three of her children but she is said to be a widow. So I have searched for the death of Gt. Grandfather from 1877 to 1881, without success. I found Gt. Grandma buried in St. Joseph's Cemetry, but no trace of where John rests. John was apparantly a Out Chelsea Pensioner, number 47169. I have followed his journey from when he enlisted in 1854 at Waterford, Ireland, but why am I unable to find his death? Any help would be appreciated. I am so proud of my Gt. Grandparents and their journey I would really like to find my 'end' to the story.

  • #2
    This may not help, but my 2 x GGF was also an out-pensioner who lived for many years in Manchester.

    He died as an in-pensioner in Chelsea in 1881 and had been there for the last two years of his life. (He also had wife and family)

    OC

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    • #3
      thank you so much for your reply. This is not a road I had even thought of! Well worth a try. Thanks again.

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      • #4
        #Further to your suggestion, can you give me some guidance as to how I could check if my gt. grandfather was admitted into Chelsea Hospital as an in-patient following his return from India. I have a Chelsea number. Would I need to contact TNA? Any help appreciated.

        ef

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        • #5
          There are some records on ancestry and findmypast if you subscribe to either of these sites, but you only get the details you already have. The census might show him resident there but if he died between them then that's not going to help.
          Margaret
          Last edited by margaretmarch; 04-09-12, 15:35.

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          • #6
            found this http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/510.htm for the complete Chelsea pensioners records

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            • #7
              Thank you Margaret for a quick response. I do subscribe to Ancestry and have scoured everywhere n the site! Unfortunately I am working between cencus returns - gt. grndfather was in India before his return in 1877 and in 1881 I am able to pick up gt. grandma and three of their children living in Manchester. This shows her to be a widow, hense my search for a death of gt. grandfather. Gt. Grandma didn't die until 1907 and I have her resting place. Following information from TNA I downloaded documents on line and found gt. grandfathers Chelsea number, but he is an out-pensioner and just disappears!
              Thank you for your interest.

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              • #8
                I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable than me will come along and help.
                Margaret

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                • #9
                  Did you raise this in Feb 2009? http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.co...hp/t-8738.html
                  People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
                  Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

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                  • #10
                    Hello! yes it was I! you have made me realise how little I have progressed in my search for Gt. Grandfather's resting place!
                    I am still going down the same road, chipping away, but not getting a result! I have had a break for a while, and have recently taken up the search again - I have given myself 6 months to try and get an end to a wonderful story. I recently found where gt. grandma lived until 1907 and where her resting place is, which I thought might have brought me to gt. grandfather too, but she is buried with two of her sons and her daughter Mary, with whom she had lived on returning from their travels. Mary never married and obviously cared for her mother until her death. I recently downloaded records from TNA which is something really new to me and I found gt. grandfather's Chelsea number, which proves he was an out-pensioner. I have sent for various death certs. which seemed at the time appropriate, but none proved right. So unfortunately I am still at the point I was at in 2009!!

                    Thank you so much for your e-mail and interest, and perhaps with your expertise you might get me on the right track! I have exhausted all the usual searches for a death, but perhaps Olde Crone Holden's suggestion that he might have returned to Chelsea might be worth persuing but TNA records do confuse me! Again any new avenues to try very welcome!

                    I have also tried to find out if the family travelled back from India together, the name of the ship, or if the family came back earlier. Any suggestions!

                    eunice

                    Thank you for your interest.

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                    • #11
                      hello!

                      perhaps if you have continued to look at this tread, you will see that webwiz has brought me back to reality and made me realise I have been searching for my gt. grandfather's final resting place for a very long time!

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                      • #12
                        I am still searching for burial/death of my Gt. Grandfather and recently came across a transcription on Find my Past for a John Waters for the year 1878 for Violet Town Cemetery, headstones 2.2.1870- 8.2.1986. The data was obtained from the Genealogical Society of Victoria, Australia and I wonder if anyone would know how I could find out whether this may refer to my Gt. Grandfather. I wonder if my Gt. Grandfather continued to travel on his return to England from India, where he was discharged from the 40th Regiment. I really am clutching at straws!

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                        • #13
                          there is only one death for a john waters registered in victoria in 1878, he was b.1877, son of richard waters and annie boyle.

                          there is one that died in 1877, age 58, b.1819. no parents listed.

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                          • #14
                            thank you so much for your reply. This eliminates this particular john waters from my search. I am always surprised at my replies and that someone can be so helpful, so thank you once again. as you can tell from my previous posts I have been a long time searching for the death of my gt. grandfather! the last bit of the jigsaw!

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                            • #15
                              Have you got all John Waters Army Records from FMP?

                              Is it possible he served his 20/22 years and then went into a Militia? I have one who entered the army1852 and left army 1874 to go into the North Lincolnshire Militia which counts as army for pension purposes.

                              Even though family may have been living Manchester it is possible your man was wandering between other army barracks like Colchester.

                              My ancestor was in India in the 1860's and then did a spell in Ireland before returning to England. Is it possible your ancestor might have died in Ireland?

                              I notice you say he joined the army in Ireland which suggests an Irishman joining the British army so do you know if he made regular visits back to Ireland and perhaps died there?

                              As an Irishman his records may be with Kilmainham Dublin which is worth checking out through FMP.ie

                              Just a few more possibilities to think about.

                              Janet

                              PS Just seen that FMP Kilmainham Records only go from 1783 to 1822 which will not help your case. And anything after 1822 is National Archives at Kew so Kilmainham is not applicable to you.

                              This website at TNA may help as below:



                              Or maybe your Australian suggestion might be worth rechecking as he spent 6 years in Australia and 2 and a half years in NZ with 4 and a half years in the East Indies. I have one who became an Army Pensioner Guard on the convict ships to Oz in the early 1860's so although Convicts to Oz did cease around 1868 is it possible he went to Oz for some other reason? I also had an army sergeant who worked in the prison service so is that a possibility?

                              Janet
                              Last edited by Janet; 14-01-13, 15:52.

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                              • #16
                                hello Janet
                                thank you so much for your response and interest. You have given me lots to ponder on! The Militia is worth looking into. We have snow at the moment so will spendthe rest of the day on my comp!
                                I have checked deaths in Ireland where possible, but nothing is registered. The australian data has been checked by kylejustin (this was so unexpected) but names, etc. don't tally. I have become very proud of my Gt. Grandparents over the years, but now find myself frustrated! I have a rather big birthday in February and had hoped to find the last bit of the jifsaw and put together a most interesting story for the family!
                                I really do appreciate the help offered by forum members. One would have thought a death/burial between 1877 and 1881 would be easy to find, how wrong can one be!

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