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  • thoughts please?

    i've been looking at my john coen again, and think i may solved him, but i wonder if i am clutching at straws.

    john coen was the name of the father given on the birth certificate of adolphine scharlotte augusta wilhelmine at bethel in south australia on 16 oct 1864. her mother was frederike wilhelmine elisabeth eisfelder, and i have her sorted now.

    i wrote to the south australia library, and the thought john coen went on to marry elizabeth green at hanson, SA in 1877. his father was given as matthew, and the library said he was a shepherd from forestgreen near nailsworth in gloucester. john and elizabeth had three children, john joseph b.1877, thomas henry b.1879 and henry b.1886 all at kooringa, SA. this is where the library got stuck.

    today i looked for any coen marriages with father matthew, and found 4: elisabeth 1870, james 1880, hannah 1887 and the above for john. trove had an announcement for james' marriage and mentioned matthew coen was from yongala. googling that, i found an emmigration story, and learned matthew came to australia in 1853, and was born around 1822.

    using that site, i learned matthew had married a hannah poplete/poplett/poplitt (b.1821, st margaret westminster) in 1844 st pancras, london. he came to australia with 4 of 5 known children, including son john b.1852 in the st martin in the fields workhouse. matthew and hannah had four more children in south australia, in yangannen, coonatto and the last in pekina, near adelaide. so they travelled from the north, probably down through the district bethel lies in on their way to adelaide. matthew died in adelaide in 1896, and no death for hannah has been found.

    so i guess i am asking if a 12 year old john coen fathered a child with a 22 year old wilhelmina eisfelder? i cannot see another john coen, and am wondering if he's name was made up? i think i am clutching at straws.

  • #2
    It seems a bit unlikely as the age disparity would be quite obvious at that point as opposed to say 2-3 years later - this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty gives some general information as to when a male would normally be mature enough to father a child and whilst it could have been possible I personally would doubt it.

    Margaret

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    • #3
      do you think his name could possibly be Cohen, rather than Coen
      Jess

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      • #4
        the spelling doesn't matter really, i've seen it as coen, cohen and cowen/cowan tracking this same family. i am thinking though that this is not my family. i hate when you have illegitimate ancestors and you know the father's name but nothing else about them.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
          the spelling doesn't matter really, i've seen it as coen, cohen and cowen/cowan tracking this same family. i am thinking though that this is not my family. i hate when you have illegitimate ancestors and you know the father's name but nothing else about them.
          Well it's possible it was a fictitious name! Shame they didn't have Bastardy Bonds as you might have found something more from that.
          Margaret

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          • #6
            very true. i guess i'm lucky to have his name at all.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
              very true. i guess i'm lucky to have his name at all.
              Well that true but not much good if you can't actually trace him and his ancestors so just as much a dead end as if you had no name!
              Margaret

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              • #8
                yes. i have 2 instances of bastardy with father's names, but can't trace them at all.

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                • #9
                  John Coen

                  Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                  i've been looking at my john coen again, and think i may solved him, but i wonder if i am clutching at straws.

                  john coen was the name of the father given on the birth certificate of adolphine scharlotte augusta wilhelmine at bethel in south australia on 16 oct 1864. her mother was frederike wilhelmine elisabeth eisfelder, and i have her sorted now.

                  i wrote to the south australia library, and the thought john coen went on to marry elizabeth green at hanson, SA in 1877. his father was given as matthew, and the library said he was a shepherd from forestgreen near nailsworth in gloucester. john and elizabeth had three children, john joseph b.1877, thomas henry b.1879 and henry b.1886 all at kooringa, SA. this is where the library got stuck.

                  today i looked for any coen marriages with father matthew, and found 4: elisabeth 1870, james 1880, hannah 1887 and the above for john. trove had an announcement for james' marriage and mentioned matthew coen was from yongala. googling that, i found an emmigration story, and learned matthew came to australia in 1853, and was born around 1822.

                  using that site, i learned matthew had married a hannah poplete/poplett/poplitt (b.1821, st margaret westminster) in 1844 st pancras, london. he came to australia with 4 of 5 known children, including son john b.1852 in the st martin in the fields workhouse. matthew and hannah had four more children in south australia, in yangannen, coonatto and the last in pekina, near adelaide. so they travelled from the north, probably down through the district bethel lies in on their way to adelaide. matthew died in adelaide in 1896, and no death for hannah has been found.

                  so i guess i am asking if a 12 year old john coen fathered a child with a 22 year old wilhelmina eisfelder? i cannot see another john coen, and am wondering if he's name was made up? i think i am clutching at straws.
                  I have just read your post and thought I would share some information about John Coen.

                  COEN John b: c1844 IRL arr in SA: 1869 on GREAT BRITAIN. Occ: Labourer
                  I will add that this is interesting as the Great Britain went to Hobson’s Bay, Melbourne, but 55 of these passengers continued on to Port Adelaide on the Aldinga. Unfortunately, there isn’t a list of steerage passengers but the entry above is from the Biographical index of South Australians and is reasonably accurate.

                  do you have this?
                  Groom Given Name(s): Adolph Hermann Carl
                  Groom Last Name: GEBERT
                  Bride Given Name(s): Friederike Wilhelmine Elisabeth
                  Bride Last Name: EISFELDER
                  Marriage Date: 1866, June 15
                  Marriage Place: Lutheran Chapel Concordia
                  Groom Age: 22
                  Groom Approx. Birth Year: 1844
                  Groom Marital Status: N
                  Groom Father: Adolph GEBERT
                  Bride Age: 23
                  Bride Approx. Birth Year: 1843
                  Bride Marital Status: N
                  Bride Father Name: Carl Rudolph EISFELDER
                  District: Barossa
                  Symbol: V
                  Book/Page: 67/277
                  Cross Reference:


                  they went on to have several children and Adolphine took his name.

                  I assume you have seen this? http://topperwien.com/genealogy/tree...e/p0000afm.htm

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