Have hit a wall

[Valkyrie]

Hello, I am hoping someone can help me. I will try and be as clear as I can. I am fairly new to all this but have picked up quite a bit of information about my husband's family tree already.

We have traced his line back to William Robertson and Sarah Nicol in Ayrshire who were married in Tarbolton in 1866. On the marriage register (which I found at Scotlandspeople) William's parents are listed as Andrew and Elizabeth Cavens...or maybe Cavins or Caven or Cavin.

Firstly regarding his mother. I know records are sketchy pre 1855, but I can only find details on census, births and deaths for an Elizabeth Caven . I cannot find William on the 1851 census.
I can find record of a marriage between an Elizabeth Cavins and Andrew Robertson in Tarbolton (again) in 1842. Which seems likely. But no other Elizabeth Cavins comes up in searches anywhere in Scotland for the time period I am looking at.
William and Andrew appear in 1861 on a census with no 'wife' but with plenty of siblings. I suspect Andrew may have married again but will come to that.

A likely candidate for Elizabeth is down in Kirkcudbrightshire (sp?) who later marries a Kirkpatrick and is shown visiting her mother in the 1851 census as a visitor anuitant?

To Andrew - there are a large number of Andrew Robertson's. I am struggling to find the right one. Tips and advice warmly welcomed.

Generally speaking all the men seem to be miners though I appreciate as I go back further this may change.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Welcome to the forum!

Do you know when and where William was born?

[Valkyrie]

Welcome to the forum!

Do you know when and where William was born?

He was born around 1847, in Coylton, Ayrshire

[maudarby]

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=1851Scotland%2c&rank=0&gsfn=william&gsln=rob*son&sx=&gs1co=3252%2cScotland&gs1pl=5328%2cAyrshire&year=&yearend=&sbo=0&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80000003&srchb=r&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&o_iid=21417&o_lid=21417&o_sch=Web+Property&offerid=0%3a21318%3a0&pcat=35&fh=78&h=1630618&recoff=&fsk=CIAABDQAI0qg&bsk=&pgoff=

This could be him in 1851.
Andrew's birthplace the same as the 1861 census but his wife in 1851 is Sarah.
Moggie

[Valkyrie]

I am not very familiar with Scottish certificates as most of my research is in England - but I thought marriage certificates gave the maiden names the mother? If it does, what does it show for Elizabeth's maiden name?

It does - It is either Caven, Cavens, Cavin or Cavins. It is really difficult to read. When searching on the Scotland's People website it lists it as Cavins for the marriage between her and Andrew. But as I said I cannot find an Elizabeth Cavins at all either census, born, or died. Just the marriage details between her and Andrew.

[Elaine ..Spain]

It does - It is either Caven, Cavens, Cavin or Cavins. It is really difficult to read. When searching on the Scotland's People website it lists it as Cavins for the marriage between her and Andrew. But as I said I cannot find an Elizabeth Cavins at all either census, born, or died. Just the marriage details between her and Andrew.

Apologies, I deleted my post as I realised as you had already given the info!

I blame the heat .. stops the brain from working!

[Valkyrie]

Not explaining myself very well I think

Andrew Robertson ~m~ Elizabeth Cavins (or Caven, Cavens or Cavin depending on how you read it) I have details of married in Tarbolton, Ayrshire 1842
Their son William Robertson born around 1847 in Coylton, Ayrshire and Married Sarah Nicol in 1866 in Tarbolton, Ayrshire.

[Valkyrie]

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...qg&bsk=&pgoff=

This could be him in 1851.
Andrew's birthplace the same as the 1861 census but his wife in 1851 is Sarah.
Moggie

It is certainly a possibility. I may check Scotlands people for the census entry I know from experience ancestry isn't very good with the transcription sometimes but it seems odd to transcribe the names completely wrong?

[herky]

Don't have much time just now to go over the posts but just to say that I have seen ROBERTSON in early records as ROBESON - names and spellings were not standardized until fairly recently.

[herky]

It is certainly a possibility. I may check Scotlands people for the census entry I know from experience ancestry isn't very good with the transcription sometimes but it seems odd to transcribe the names completely wrong?

FMP has it as ROBISON also.

[Valkyrie]

but how do you know it's him? Sorry trying to understand for future reference? It describes him as an ironstone miner?

What are my chances of discovering what happened to his first wife (Elizabeth)and tracking down a marriage certificate for Sarah?

oh and what is FMP?

THANK YOU!

[herky]

Sorry Valkyrie - FMP is Findmypast wich is another genealogy record site like ancestry but thought to have better transcriptions.

[Valkyrie]

thank you for that. I have been following up a bit on those leads and they do lead onto Robertson's later. If this is the same guy....he was married 3 times, potentially having an affair with the last women at the same time as being with his 2nd wife (though I can't find a marriage entry for his 3rd wife)...and having children with both women....and then ended up in Ayr Lunatic Asylum where only his latest wife is listed on his death entry...

There are only 3 deaths for Andrew Robertson's around this time and only the lunatic matches!

[Uncle John]

....and then ended up in Ayr Lunatic Asylum where only his latest wife is listed on his death entry...

There are only 3 deaths for Andrew Robertson's around this time and only the lunatic matches!

Have you seen the register image, which will give the cause of death, or just the index? One reason for committal to the lunatic asylum, and death there, is the later stages of syphilis, normally shown on death certificates as GPI or general paralysis of the insane.

[Valkyrie]

Have you seen the register image, which will give the cause of death, or just the index? One reason for committal to the lunatic asylum, and death there, is the later stages of syphilis, normally shown on death certificates as GPI or general paralysis of the insane.

acute bronchitis I believe it was.

[Valkyrie]

the other thing that is bugging me - as I said there are two Andrew Robertson's that I have found deaths for - there are 2 Andrew Robertson's born in Kirkmichael around 1823-1827....and both seemingly married to a Margaret Wilson according to the death registry.
Tho one says married to Margaret Wilson or Semple?

[maudarby]

Tho one says married to Margaret Wilson or Semple?

That will be the one below who has step-children named Semple.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1871Scotland&indiv=try&h=4595935

Moggie

[Valkyrie]

Tho one says married to Margaret Wilson or Semple?

That will be the one below who has step-children named Semple.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1871Scotland&indiv=try&h=4595935

Moggie

thank you - oddly a Semple appears later on the census as a grandson...but this has helped me rule out this Andrew. The William on the census there is much too young

[Valkyrie]

cannot find a birth for William or a possible sibling Agnes at all. Nor can I find a death for his mother Elizabeth or even a hint of what may have happened to her :(

Any ideas?

[Valkyrie]

Have found Elizabeth in Tarbolton the year before she marries Andrew as a farm servant

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1841scotland&h=2653275&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t45151284_p6344745834_kpidz0q3d6344745834z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgPLz0q3dpid

It states she has been born in Ayrshire but I can't find anything.