Olive Edith Burton

[darannon]

Hi everyone, I have worked on my own tree for several years, and now I'm trying to help my husband do his. We have got on well with his father's side, but his mother's is more tricky.

Her parents were Olive Edith Burton and Albert Edward Roberson (not Robertson). They married in Hampstead in 1923. There were 9 children in the family, some of whom are still alive, so I won't put their names. However, my MIL has always said her family came from Norfolk, and moved to London for work (date unknown).

I have found Albert and his parents in the East End, and on the census he was born in Bow in 1881 (there is also a matching baptism). So, no Norfolk connection there.
Olive Burton is a mystery, the only Olive Edith I can find in the right time scale was born Rugby, Leeds in 1904. I can't see how that would be the one I'm looking for, but it's all I've found so far.

Also, my MIL's eldest sister, Molly, died last year age 91. This would mean she was born 1920/21, before any Burton/Roberson marriage. And indeed, I can't find her listed as Roberson, but there is a Molly Burton MMN Burton born Kensington Sept 1920. Again, the area seems wrong, and my MIL wouldn't want to be told her mother had a child out of marriage (especially if I'm wrong). But so far this is all I've found.

My MIL and siblings were all brought up in willesden and kilburn, London.
After Molly and her husband retired they 'moved back' to Norfolk.

Does anyone have any ideas on this please.
Thankyou
Darannon

[SmallTownGirl]

Hi

My FIL, born in Lancashire, was convinced his family was Scottish, purely based on the fact that his father's first name was Andrew! They're not Scottish, by the way, so maybe Olive's family weren't actually from Norfolk.

Re Olive Edith Burton, there is only the one b. 1904 in the Rugby, Warks, registration district. I looked at the 1911 census to see where her parents were born, but that says father Rugby, mother Basingstoke, Hants.

Then I wondered if Olive had previously been married to a Mr Burton, but couldn't find anything that way.

If your MIL knows that her parents were married in 1923 and Molly was 91 when she died, presumably she already knows that Molly was born before Albert married Olive. Is Molly her proper name, or a family nickname/diminutive? Perhaps Albert was married to someone else before he married Olive - he would have been over 20 yrs older than her - and Molly is their child? There's a marriage for an Albert Edward Roberson in Holborn in 1900 to either a Mary Elizabeth Bedford or an Alice Newman.

Sorry, more questions than answers.

STG

Edit : Someone on Ancestry has Albert married to Alice Elizabeth Newman, and living in Forest Gate in 1911 with two children, b. 1900 and 1908. They have Albert dying in Southend in 1944. Same family?

[maudarby]

Hi
Do you know when & where Olive died?

Moggie

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Have you seen your MIL's birth certificate? Unless it's a short one, it should indicate any previous names for her mother.
Similarly, the marriage cert for Albert & Olive should indicate any previous marriage and, hopefully, the name of her father.

ETA - I only found 7 Roberson/Burton birth registrations, but there were 9 children in all?

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

The 1911 census entry is for Albert Edward born Bow c1881, commercial clerk.
He & his wife Alice had been married for 11 yrs. Son & namesake born 1901 in Hackney, daughter born 1908 in Leytonstone.

Jay

[SmallTownGirl]

The 1911 census entry is for Albert Edward born Bow c1881, commercial clerk.
He & his wife Alice had been married for 11 yrs. Son & namesake born 1901 in Hackney, daughter born 1908 in Leytonstone.

Jay

That's the one on the Ancestry tree who dies in Southend in 1944.

STG

[maudarby]

I think the son also died in Southend in 1985.
Still looking for Olive.
Moggie

[SmallTownGirl]

I think the son also died in Southend in 1985.
Still looking for Olive.
Moggie

And the daughter, under her married name, in Southend in 2001.

STG

[darannon]

thanks for all the help, I'm still confused by it all.
Main points I can think of -
Albert edward roberson's father was also albert edward. The only match on ancestry seems to be londoners? I think (but not definite) that Albert Edward b. Bow 1881 is the grandfather of my MIL. Someone has this on ancestry, but the tree isn't opening for me.
I can't find any Roberson's in Norfolk.
My MIL doesn't know I found a marriage for roberson/burton, and I haven't applied for the certificate (yet!). I was under the definite impression that they moved from Norfolk to London to find work, and that all children after molly were born in Willesden/Kilburn.
I don't know if Molly was a real name or 'pet' name. But she definitely 'moved back' to Norfolk in her 60's, and died there last year.
Albert died before Olive, and Olive didn't remarry. They both died in Kilburn, after my husband was born (1959). So, I think late 60's?
Thanks again
Darannon

[darannon]

I have just re-read the posts and if the robersons in the ancestry tree died in southend it's not the same family.
Thanks again

[darannon]

Also, re the number of children, my MIL is one of 9. I have found 7 of her siblings, but not Molly. My MIL herself was registered incorrectly as Robertson, which she already knew. I haven't seen her birth certificate.
Darannon

[AntonyM]

Have you seen your MIL's birth certificate? Unless it's a short one, it should indicate any previous names for her mother.
Similarly, the marriage cert for Albert & Olive should indicate any previous marriage and, hopefully, the name of her father.

Jay

I agree - you don't make it clear whether you have examined these certificates to see what is on there, rather than what family stories say or people believe. I did some work for a client a little while ago where he gave me his late father's name as Reginald James xxxxxxx. I spent hours trying to track this chap down and could find absolutely nothing. Eventually I asked my client to check his own birth certificate - turned out he only ever had the short version, so we ordered one from GRO and found his father was actually Reginald Arthur xxxxxxx - and we immediately found all the information we needed..... for about 65 years he had got his own father's name wrong. Lesson learnt for the future !

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Looking at 1901 Norfolk census, there were 3 Olive Burtons born Norfolk c1896, one was just Olive, had sisters with 2 forenames and a mother called Edith. father was a farm steward.

Jay

[kylejustin]

i think you need your mother in law's birth certificate. then her parents marriage. that will tell what her grandfather's names were and help identify the families in 1911, and then beyond. the family may have been from norfolk as far back as the 1840's, you never know unless you get it all right.

[darannon]

okay, well it is tricky to get info from my MIL, but apparently her mum's family were from Dereham in Norfolk. I don't think there is any chance of her showing me her birth certificate. I have found one olive burton in 1911, born 1903 in norwich, living in Wandsworth with her family, so I have kept a note just in case
Darannon

[darannon]

Now I have found a Burton family in Dereham, Norfolk in 1901 - daughter named Olive (no Edith) b1896 and mistranscribed as Alice. This fits better with the little info I do have, so I'm going to see what else I can find about them and hope there's a link
thanks again

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Is this Olive, daughter of Horace & Jinnie?
1901 in service in East Dereham?

Jay

[maudarby]

I have found Albert and his parents in the East End, and on the census he was born in Bow in 1881 (there is also a matching baptism). So, no Norfolk connection there.

We have now ruled this one out & his son who was born in Hackney in 1900 as they all appear to have ended up in Southend.
I think the only way forward is to get the marriage certificate to find out the names of Albert & Olive's fathers & hopefully their ages when they married.
I still can't find a death for either of them in the Kilburn area.
Moggie

[maudarby]

Is this Olive, daughter of Horace & Jinnie?
1901 in service in East Dereham?

Jay

According to an Ancestry tree this Olive was Olive Emily Burton which fits with a birth reg
Q4 1895 Mitford. This is the right reg district for Dereham.
Moggie

[darannon]

Thanks for all your help, but the only roberson/burton marriage I can find is hampstead 1923. The children listed from that marriage are definitely my MIL's siblings. But the ancestry tree with this couple is the one that states Albert Edward Roberson was born in Hackney and died in Southend. So I'm stuck really, until my MIL decides to tell me the names of her grandparents (she isn't happy about having the tree done, but my husband wants to, so it's a bit tricky). The ancestry tree doesn't go forward with Roberson children, I think I will try to contact the tree owner to see if there is a possible mix up somewhere. I also haven't been able to find the deaths, but my husband was born in 1959 and they were both alive then, and his grandad died before his nan. He says his nan still had a norfolk accent and always hoped to 'move back home'.
Thanks again
Darannon