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Childs surname without mother being married

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  • Childs surname without mother being married

    Hi

    my DH 2x great grandfather was John Hunter Oliver and I believe his mother to be Jane Hunter born c1866 in South Shields. John is living with his "mother" and grandparents in 1871 and just the grandparents in 1881. If Jane was his mother, how was he registered with the surname Oliver? Could she have just lied and said she was married?
    Robyne


    Name interests: Alderton, Osborne, Danslow, Hanley, Bowkett, Lakin, Elliott, Banner, Walters, Reed, Deighton, Sleight, Dungar ;)

  • #2
    If she was unmarried and the father attended with her to register the birth, it should be indexed under both surnames and the father's name will appear on the birth registration (but you probably knew that already!).
    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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    • #3
      You can and always could, call yourself anything at all, your surname doesn't have to be that of either your mother or your father - it is just convention (but not law) in this country that we use our father's surname.

      OC

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      • #4
        In OH's tree, his ancestor (b 1857, "father unknown") was registered with middle names resembling closely the name of a senior naval officer who is subsequently (1861) seen living with (new) wife and family round the corner from the birthplace. In the 1871 census, OH's ancestor appears with his second middle name (i.e. the naval officer's surname) as a surname, and his mother's surname has been dropped.

        Interestingly, by the time of his marriage in 1879, both middle names have been dropped in favour of his mother's maiden surname, and he's on his way to a solidly respectable longterm job as a Farm Bailiff for an estate to the east of Plymouth.

        Christine
        Last edited by Christine in Herts; 09-08-12, 16:50.
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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        • #5
          Some in my tree had a few children all registered with the fathers surname and they were shown as a family on each census ..they married several years later... I oftened wondered how they registered them .. but it was fine if the father agreed.

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          • #6
            There is of course a difference between registering in a surname (you can use any old surname regardless of your condition) and registering the father's name on a certificate.

            I could register my child as Jane Bloggs, my maiden name being Buggins, which would infer that Iwas married to Mr Bloggs. But only sight of the certificate will tell you whether I said Mr Bloggs was the father, or whether I left that bit blank.

            OC

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            • #7
              Can't find it offhand, but for one of my Scottish births to an unmarried mother I have the Register of Corrected Entries page in which the Procurator Fiscal (or similar) has made enquires and declares the father to be X.
              Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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              • #8
                UJ

                I think Scottish and English registration law was slightly different in that only the FATHER of an illegitimate child could declare himself the father on the certificate.

                I have never seen an English birth certificate where the father is declared to be Joe Bloggs by anyone in an official capacity, even though many of these illegitimate children had maintenance orders in force. A maintenance order would suggest that the courts were legally satisfied that Joe Bloggs was the father of Minnie Buggins' child...but the court did not order a re-registration.

                Anyone know different?!

                OC

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                  UJ

                  I think Scottish and English registration law was slightly different in that only the FATHER of an illegitimate child could declare himself the father on the certificate.

                  I have never seen an English birth certificate where the father is declared to be Joe Bloggs by anyone in an official capacity, even though many of these illegitimate children had maintenance orders in force. A maintenance order would suggest that the courts were legally satisfied that Joe Bloggs was the father of Minnie Buggins' child...but the court did not order a re-registration.

                  Anyone know different?!

                  OC
                  I certainly haven't seen any examples of an English birth registration being changed in that way. I have heard of baptism records having interesting annotations by the clergyman, though!

                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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                  • #10
                    Christine

                    Oh yes, I have seen many a father named on a baptism register but that was because the parish authorities wanted to know who was financially responsible for the child.

                    I have never thought of this before but it does seem odd that English law can insist a man financially maintains his illegitimate child, but does not force him to legally acknowledge that child. The Scottish law seems much kinder in that respect.

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      wow, so much info! thanks all
                      Robyne


                      Name interests: Alderton, Osborne, Danslow, Hanley, Bowkett, Lakin, Elliott, Banner, Walters, Reed, Deighton, Sleight, Dungar ;)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                        UJ

                        I think Scottish and English registration law was slightly different in that only the FATHER of an illegitimate child could declare himself the father on the certificate.

                        I have never seen an English birth certificate where the father is declared to be Joe Bloggs by anyone in an official capacity, even though many of these illegitimate children had maintenance orders in force. A maintenance order would suggest that the courts were legally satisfied that Joe Bloggs was the father of Minnie Buggins' child...but the court did not order a re-registration.

                        Anyone know different?!

                        OC
                        I think you are right OC, I used to work for DHSS and was once in charge of prosecuting putative father's in court for maintenance to relieve the burden on benefits and even when we got an order saying he was adjudged to be the father it was never part of the process to have the birth re-registered.

                        Not sure what happens now with all the DNA stuff proving things rather more decisively than the balance of probabilities, but I think if you look at the rules on the GRO site about re-registering births etc there is no mention of the courts having the right to do it or even order it to be done.

                        Margaret

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