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Help please to find Florence's 1st marriage and before

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  • Help please to find Florence's 1st marriage and before

    I am helping a friend, ... but not getting very far, so would be grateful for input please.
    She is trying to sort out BELLCHAMBER families in Portsmouth area linked to Florence's marriage in 1919.
    We thought that Florence M. who married Charles E A THOMAS in 1919 might be the widow of George H BELLCHAMBER who married Florence M CRAVEN in 1912.
    The marriage certificate BELLCHAMBER= THOMAS has arrived and states that she WAS a widow,Florence Marguerite who was 25, but her father was George William PAGE (deceased) a cowman.
    Groom was Charles Edward Ashley THOMAS,a driller, son of Charles a stoker in RN.
    Witnesses C.S.COLLINS and Margaret HARRIS

    Can anyone please find Florence pre. 1919.

    Gwyn
    Last edited by Gwyn in Kent; 26-07-12, 20:06.

  • #2
    Florence M Craven married a George H Bellchamber in Jun quarter 1912 2b 1163 Portsmouth Hampshire

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    • #3
      Thanks Val.
      GRO index suggests they had 2 children with mmn CRAVEN so she can't be the daughter of George PAGE.

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      • #4
        Who exactly are you interested in? Is it Florence Bellchamber nee Craven or someone else?

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        • #5
          Friend is actually interested in any BELLCHAMBERs as she used to help a GOONS researcher.
          She tries to sort out information related to each reference of the name (and it's variants )

          I can't find a birth of a Florence Marguerite PAGE to link to the latest certificate.....and who was she the widow of, at such a young age.?

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          • #6
            There's the birth of a Florence MARGARET Craven (later poshed up to be Marguerite?) in 1893 in Portsea. Maybe she was illegitimate but knew her father was called Page?

            EDIT - or did she maybe bring a child to the marriage and wished to pretend she was a widow?

            OC
            Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 26-07-12, 22:21.

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            • #7
              Interesting thought OC.... Not the first time I've come across a possible 'poshing up' of names.
              I did note that Florence's father George was conveniently deceased......

              Thank you. I will see if they appear in census, but friend might have to buy the CRAVEN marriage too.

              Gwyn

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              • #8
                Gosh, hope I'm wrong, but the only death of a George Bellchamber I can see is also June Q 912...aged 81, lol!

                I looked at every Florence Marguerite born between 1890 and 1900. None had a surname even remotely like Craven or Page, so she was either illegitimate or her mother was widowed and remarried and Florence used her stepfather's surname.

                Yes, I think friend will have to get the Bellchamber/Craven marriage cert.

                OC

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                • #9
                  I know this doesn't help but I think the daughter of George and Florence - Florence May Bellchamber died, after 2 marriages, as Florence May Beuzeval in 1982 in Portsmouth.
                  Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                  • #10
                    Lol..!

                    Chasing Florence PAGE for a moment and wondering if she was truthful about her age, I looked for an earlier marriage and in Elham Kent in 1904 a Florence Margaret married.

                    Clicking on page number on freebmd to find possible spouse, I note that one of the other names on that page is Florence Margarite DRAY.
                    Could these Florences be one and the same person or is that too far fetched?

                    Gwyn

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                    • #11
                      Thank you Chrissie... you crept in there..

                      Any extra information might provide another clue, so Thank you for that.

                      So I wonder if her mother was Florence May too

                      Gwyn
                      Last edited by Gwyn in Kent; 26-07-12, 23:17.

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                      • #12
                        That marriage is listed under both names but I suspect might be one and the same? Worth Checking in 1911.

                        p.s. The sons death was registered before his birth!
                        Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 26-07-12, 23:23.
                        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                        • #13
                          Maybe not that far fetched, Gwyn - DRAY could be a badly mistranscribed CRAV en.

                          If you see what I mean! I've seen worse manglings than that. The only thing wrong with it is that she seriously lied about her age if she married in 1904 - the minimum age for marriage was 12 for a girl, which would have made her born before 1892 and a marriage at 12 was very unlikely I think.

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            Yes.. The age is way out.
                            I was looking for any Florence Marg* births or marriages and noticed that one, but will come back to this more alert, - hopefully, tomorrow I think.

                            Thank you for your help and thoughts.

                            Gwyn

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                            • #15
                              We couldn't fathom this so the CRAVEN marriage certificate is on order.

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                              • #16
                                CRAVEN =BELCHAMBER marriage has now arrived and as O.C. suspected this Florence appears to be illegitimate...no father named on certificate.

                                Florence Marguerita Craven a spinster age 19 married on 8th May 1912, so it looks very much as if this is the widow who later married Mr THOMAS.( if indeed she was a widow?)
                                I wonder what happened to George Henry BELLCHAMBER who was 21 when he married Florence ?......We haven't been able to find him yet.

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                                • #17
                                  Hi Gwyn
                                  Was there an address on the certificate for George Henry Bellchamber?
                                  Moggie

                                  PS What was his father's name & their occupations?
                                  Last edited by maudarby; 06-08-12, 19:55.

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                                  • #18
                                    Moggie

                                    Thank you for your interest... Here are the details.

                                    8th May 1912 at Portsmouth Register Office by certificate:
                                    George Henry Bellchamber, a bachelor, a green grocer age 21 of 49 Esslemont Road, Southsea... the son of George Henry Bellchamber a carpenter and joiner

                                    Florence Marguerita Craven, a spinste,r age 19 of 152 Wingfield Street Landport. Fathers name and occupation not named

                                    Witnessed by: Robert Turpin and the mark of Mary Smith
                                    Signed: George Henry Bellchamber and Florence Marguerita Craven

                                    I found George in 1911 when his father shows him as 17 !!
                                    Last edited by Gwyn in Kent; 07-08-12, 20:46.

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                                    • #19
                                      So the birth in post #6 above might be her? Age is spot on.

                                      OC

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                                      • #20
                                        It looks very probable, doesn't it?
                                        Like you said, she just poshed-up her name, most likely.

                                        Not found definite census matches for her though with her mother or family.

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