are these signatures the same?

[Guest]

Esther Joel.jpgSusan Joel.jpgI'm looking closer at my Guttentags as I still have a few doubts.

Abraham Isaac Guttentag also known as Abraham Rose

He married in 1857 under the name Abraham Rose to Susan Joel

He married in 1860 under the name Abraham Isaac Guttentag to Esther Joel

in both The bride says Fathers name Coleman Joel a Merchant and am sure or thought I was its the same girl.

I believe she was the illigitimate daughter of him and Lydia Lazarus who is living with the couple on the Census records.

Would you say these signatures of the Bride are the same Girl ?? Thanks

[herky]

Abraham - this name doesn't look the same to me.
One is more rounded and the other more elongated.
That said my own writing varies quite a lot depending on the pen, my mood, how hurried I am etc.
Hmmm - not sure

[Gwyn in Kent]

Are they original copies of the Registers or are they filled in by the same clerk?

Gwyn

[Guest]

How would I know if they had not been signed by the couple ?
Both marriages are in different places the 1857 one is in The parish Church of St Mary Whitechapel the other is in The Great Synagogue of St James

[kylejustin]

well do the signatures look the same as their names written in the marriage entry? or do the signatures look the same as the other couples on the page?

[JudithM]

Not a hard and fast rule but if you got these certificates from the GRO they are probably not the original signatures- as the entry from the register was copied out to be submitted at the end of the quarter. One of the original registers which the couple signed will be with the church (or deposited at the records office) the other was deposited at the registrar's office (once full) so if you got your copies from one of these sources its more likely to be the original signatures.

[kylejustin]

i think val got them off the london ones on ancestry. but i have seen original registers signed by the curate, not the parties.

[Gwyn in Kent]

They are on GRO paper.... The fine print is visible...

[Elaine ..Spain]

Re the Abraham Rose marriage in 1857, the MC is on Ancestry with signatures which are very different from the ones in your image Val.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_194827-00149&fn=Abraham&ln=Rose&st=d&ssrc=&pid=2163626

[Guest]

Abraham Rose 1857 Ancestry.JPGThis is the Ancestry image of the 1857 Marriage

Thanks everyone I got them both from the GRO long before they became available online in fact Elaine I hadn't seen that one on Ancestry as hadn't bothered to look so thanks for that , whats interesting on that copy is I see Lydia says Lydia Joel then thats crossed out and its changed to her maiden name Lazarus? I always thought she was the illigitimate daughter of Lydia that almost confirms it .