Across the pond from England to Australia

[avagadro]

Hi there, I am quite new to the family history researching game but I have made good progress so far. I have managed to track my family name back to an "Arthur Courtney" who lived in Sydney, Australia and died there in 1911. There is no birth record in Australia for Arthur, but I have managed to get a hold of a very old physical note that indicates his father was a "William Courtney" from Millwall in England, which as far as I can see is a locality in the Isle of Dogs, London.

But that's where my good luck has ended, I can't seem to bridge this gap - was Arthur born in England, emigrating with his father William? I know nothing of Arthur's mother either. If any one has any advice or can help me at all on what to do (or knows exactly where to search and can do so for me!) then I would really appreciate it!!! Thanks!!

[WendyPusey]

Do you know his date of birth?

[Macbev]

Is he the Arthur Courtney of the Baumann's Cafe who died aged 50 years, 17 Apr 1911? If so, you can search the Trove newspaper site for funeral notices, which may lead you further into his tree.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/

You can order his death certificate online at

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/index.htm

Reg. No:4083/1911
Last Name: COURTNEY
Given Name:ARTHUR
Father:WILLIAM
Reg. dist:SYDNEY

and may be able to get further details of his parents there, perhaps.

[kylejustin]

his marriage should have some info on parents too. whether that's england or australia.

[dicole]

A wonderful set of funeral notices in Trove (search Arthur Courtney and limit the decade to 1911) will give you the names of many of his family and his home address. The next step is to check the NSW BDM indexes for the children's birth registrations - I found four (1889-1898) and from them learned his wife was Elizabeth, but could not find a marriage entry for them.

A NSW death certificate will ususally give you his parents names and fathers occupation (although it appears his mother is not named), where Arthur was born and married and his wifes name. It should also name his children, cause of death and place of burial/cremation.

A transcription of a NSW certificate is available from one of the three official transcribers, listed on the NSW BDM website, all of them are very good - its not an official certificate, but for family history info, its just fine and costs half as much and sent to you by email. I used to get them when I ran out of leads as to where to go next - usually back to England.

You could also look on the NSW State Records website for any records of Arthur immigrating to Australia, with or without his wife, or father and mother. His age is given as 50 in the death notices, so you should be able to pick him up in one of the English census with his father William, through ancestry or find-my-past. (1881 is free on ancestry)


Diane

[avagadro]

Thanks for all the fast replies! I have ordered a copy of Arthur Courtney's death certificate, I hope that there might be some more clues on there. Failing that I will try and get more detail off the marriage to Caroline and see what that yields.

I'll also try a few more of the suggestions out here and let you know how I get on! Any more and all help so far is awesome! Thanks all

[Macbev]

Caroline Elizabeth Courtney died 3rd Aug 1936; residence was 165 Illawarra Rd Marrickville. Age given as 67, so a birth date ca. 1869

This link to Trove shows she had siblings named Priscilla CRANNEY, Alfred GASCOIGNE, George GASCOIGNE

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17257556?searchTerm=caroline%20elizabeth%20courtney&searchLimits=l-category=Family+Notices|||l-decade=193|||l-year=1936

There is a Priscilla GASCOIGNE shown in the NSW Records site mentioned above as marrying Matthew F Regan in 1883 (he seems to appear in other places as Matthew Regan CRANNEY

The 1881 census of Hasland, Derbyshire shows a GASCOIGNE family containing both a Priscilla and Caroline, along with several other siblings...did not find either Alfred or George. Possibly the family of Arthur's wife.


Isaac Gascoigne;head;46;coal miner;b.Somercotes, derbyshire
Caroline Gascoigne;wife;43
Priscilla Gascoine;dau;23;
Solomon Gascoigne, son;19
Abraham Gascoigne;son;16
Kate Gascoigne;dau;14
Caroline Gascoigne;dau;12;
William Gascoigne;son;10
Robert Gascoigne;son;5

[avagadro]

Hrm that is quite interesting Macbev, I wonder if that is the same Gascoignes ...

Anyway, I have received the transcript for Arthur Courtney's death certificate. It lists his father as William Courtney (occupation Hotel Keeper) and NO mother! ... it says Arthur was 47 at the time of death in 1911 and that he was born in London England, beneath that it says he spent 30 years in Australia and he was married to Caroline when he was 21.

So, I am not sure where to go from here! ... I need awesome help!!!

[Macbev]

So, we have Arthur Courtney,s/o/ William Courtney, b. London, England ca 1864; emigrated to Australia ca 1881 and married Caroline ca 1885 (presumably in Australia somewhere). Arthur must also have had at least one brother, who fathered the nephew Edward Courtney who appeared in the death/memorial items on Trove.

Have since found an article (Sydney Morning herald, Thurs 31 May 1900) indicating that Caroline's father was one James Jordan Gascoigne (d. 29 May Adelaide st Surry Hills aged 67 yrs) Father George J Gascoigne, mother Elizabeth. So you can probably disregard the census detail posted earlier. Also infers connections with N.Z and UK

[Mary from Italy]

There is no birth record in Australia for Arthur, but I have managed to get a hold of a very old physical note that indicates his father was a "William Courtney" from Millwall in England, which as far as I can see is a locality in the Isle of Dogs, London.

Do you know where the piece of paper came from?

There is a baptism that fits well for Arthur Courtney son of William and Sarah of Millwall, born in 1868 and baptised along with several siblings in 1871, but his father's a Relieving Officer:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=31280_197234-00027&fn=Arthur&ln=Courtney&st=d&ssrc=&pid=3194738

In the 1871 and 1881 censuses William is still a Relieving Officer, whereas in 1861 he was a railway station master.

I haven't found the family yet in 1891, so it could be that they emigrated together; however, I haven't found them on a passenger list yet.

[Mary from Italy]

I think this will be William's death (he was born about 1831, and they were living in Poplar in 1881):

Deaths Mar 1885
Courtney William Henry 54 Poplar 1c 482

[Mary from Italy]

This is probably Arthur's parents' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1850
BRITCHER John Geo st south 2 568
Chittick Sarah Stepney 2 568
Courtney William Henry Stepney 2 568
Hutchinson Mary Ann Stepney 2 568
Jenkins Eliza Stepney 2 568
Jenkinson William Stepney 2 568
King Elizabeth Stepney 2 568
Watson George Stepney 2 568
WOOD John Charles Stepney 2 568

[Mary from Italy]

William's widow Sarah was living in England with one of her daughters in 1891:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=MDXRG12_1064_1066-0618&fn=Sarah&ln=Courtney&st=d&ssrc=&pid=10793605

and they were joined by another daughter and a grandson in 1901:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7814&iid=LNDRG13_204_205-0544&fn=Sarah&ln=Courtney&st=d&ssrc=&pid=2572522

[Mary from Italy]

This is William and Sarah's marriage cert:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_196318-00039&fn=William+Henry&ln=Courtney&st=d&ssrc=&pid=2700158

and this looks like William's baptism:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=31547_213341-00378&fn=William+Henry&ln=Courtney&st=d&ssrc=&pid=6678141

This all fits together if the baptism for Arthur is correct; the only thing that I'm puzzled about is why William was described as a hotel keeper on Arthur's death cert.

[Mary from Italy]

Caroline Courtney and Priscilla Cranney both died in Sydney in 1936, and the parents' names are given as James Gordon and Mary in both cases.

[Mary from Italy]

It looks as though Arthur's grandfather, Samuel Chittick, was an innkeeper, so perhaps the informant of the death certificate made a mistake.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=ESSCHO107_344_346-0129&fn=Sarah&ln=Chittick&st=d&ssrc=&pid=16327427

[avagadro]

Wow, that's all fantastic information Mary! Thank you so much for digging for me, I think I am going to have to get a subscription to Ancestry UK as that site seems to be quite good for this!!

[Mary from Italy]

Yes, I think you'll need one if you want to research your family tree seriously.

You could start with a free 14-day subscription; they ask for your credit card details, but no money is taken from your card if you cancel before the 14 days are up.

If you want a sub that includes Australian records, you'll need the World sub.

You should also be able to use Ancestry free at your local library.

[Mary from Italy]

I forgot to mention that the BMD information comes from http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

[Lindy Courtney]

Hi - I have just joined and was researching my family tree. I have found the official documents in relation to Arthur Courtney and his wife Caroline Elizabeth misleading at times, probably based on the informant for the document. Caroline's death certificate states she married Arthur when she was 19 and they married in Sydney. It was identified that Caroline's father was a military officer and that Caroline was born in Orange, I could not find evidence of the marriage or birth. Arthur was the informant on the birth certificate for his son and he identified himself as being aged 27 at the time of the birth, a barman and that he came from London. Arthur identified his son's mother as Elizabeth Caroline Gascoigne (so possibly she used her second name) and that she was aged 27 and her birthplace was London.
Interestingly there is a beautiful monument at Waverley Cemetery which Caroline and Arthur erected for their two little children who died and then Arthur was buried there, Caroline a lot later. There was also another woman buried there whose connection to Arthur and Caroline is not clear.