Can anyone find these deaths please?

[WendyPusey]

Elizabeth Lissiman marries Peter Sweeney 27/11/1852 St. George Church, East Stonehouse, Devon and then marries again in 1856. Can't find a death for Peter Sweeney.

Her sister Maria Lissiman marries George Grainger 20/12/1852 St. George Church, East Stonehouse, Devon and then marries again in Ireland in 1857. Can't find a death for George Grainger.

I think that both of these men could have been in the Royal Marines as East Stonehouse is the Royal Marine base, and they possibly died while on board ship or abroad.

Would anyone know how I can find out what happened to them both?

[bubblebelle]

I may not be very helpful here Wendy. But I know, when I have been doing lookups at N.Devon archives, Plymoth records are a bit of a hit and miss scenario. The archivists there have told me that some records for Plymouth were destroyed during the bombing in WW11.
I am unsure whether the Bishops transcripts still exist. If all else fails it may be worth contacting Plymouth archives.

[bubblebelle]

Not sure if there is anything on here that may help. But id military men this is probably the most sensible theory

http://cwrs.russianwar.co.uk/cwrsentry.html

[Elaine ..Spain]

If it was an "accident at sea" then maybe worth checking local newspapers.

[merleyone]

No clues about the deaths I'm afraid but a few titbits here which may help with general background, if you don't already know of them.
A Maria Lissiman was baptised at Stonehouse on 1/3/1835 as daughter of James Lissiman, Private, Royal Marines, & Maria.
In 1851, there is a George Grainger, Private, 24, b. Chichester, at the (Royal Marine) Barracks, Forton, Alverstoke, Hants, who may also be the George Grainger whose attestation papers are listed in the Catalogue of the National Archives, ADM 157/389/78, folios 78-81. He was apparently attested into the Royal Marines at Portsmouth in 1847 and discharged as an invalid in 1853.

merleyone

[WendyPusey]

Thanks merleyone, I have the info for Maria.

Don't think that George Grainger is the one. I have attestation papers for one born in Ireland but I can't read the reason he was discharged.

Can anyone else read what it says?

Grainger.jpg

[merleyone]

This George Grainger, b. Ireland, was an Able Bodied sailor, AB, and the reason for his discharge is shown as Run, ie he deserted his ship, the Hogue.

Best wishes with your search.

merleyone

[WendyPusey]

Doesn't look like run to me. Could explain why Maria married again if he deserted but was the 2nd marriage legal?

[Elaine ..Spain]

I'm not convinced it is Run - seems a very odd term to use.

[merleyone]

I have looked again at this word and am certain it is Run. The letters 'u' and 'n' are also shown in the ship's name, Hogue, and in the abbreviated date, 'Jany', for the commencement of Grainger's service as an Ordinary Seaman on HMS Indefatigible on the above extract and although not perfect comparisons, you may see the similarities with the word Run.
That word was used by the Navy to show desertion if a man missed three consecutive weekly musters and was entered accordingly in the ships muster book. Desertion, or running away, was rife in the Navy and a report to the then Prime Minister from the Navy Board showed almost 80.000 men had deserted between Aug 1775 and Feb 1783, using that definition. Even in 1797, Nelson complained that five or six men could not be so entered as 'Run' because they had not then missed 3 weekly musters. I do not know if the term is still used in the Navy.
If you view 'Army and Navy Deserters' in Your Archives at the National Archives, you will find that it reminds readers that 'the Navy used the term 'Run' to describe the act of desertion and it is a term you may come across in continuous service engagements' (which started in the mid 1800s). (The Admiralty also noted a man's records with DD as the cause for discharge if he died in service, Discharged Dead.)

I have found that HMS Hogue was actively engaged in the Baltic during 1854 against the Russians, it being at the time of the Crimean War, and although I have not found any other details of the ship's activities until 1857, it may be that if further deployment to the Baltic in the winter of 1854/5 took place or was planned, desertion may have seemed to be a practical alternative for some.

As far as the legality of any further marriage by Maria is concerned, that marriage would still have been unlawful while her first husband was still living.

merleyone

[WendyPusey]

Thank you merleyone. Very interesting.

So if he deserted, I wonder what happened to him? Another brick wall!

[Elaine ..Spain]

Thanks for that merleyone - had never seen the term "run" used in that context before.
Something new learnt today!

[Elaine ..Spain]

Wendy, did the papers you downloaded from TNA for George give any other info that might be helpful other than year and place of birth (1826 Cork).

[WendyPusey]

No Elaine, just date and place of birth, no other info that is of any use.