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Non Conformist Church query

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  • Non Conformist Church query

    I have Harriet Marchant born 3/5/1821 in Leigh, Kent.
    She is christened on 1/6/1821 at the Wesleyan church in Sevenoaks, Kent
    She is christened again on 10/6/1821 at the Wesleyan church in Tunbridge Wells, Kent.

    Please could someone tell me why was she christened in 2 different Wesleyan churches? Is that the norm for this faith to be christened more than once?

    Her family must have converted to the Wesleyan Methodist church in the early 1800’s because Harriet had 2 brothers and 3 sisters who are christened at St Marys in Leigh Kent between 1797 and 1807.

    There are then 2 sisters and 1 brother who are christened between 1810 and 1818 in Wesleyan Churches. They are all christened in Tunbridge Wells and Sevenoaks but 1 brother and 1 sister are christened in Maidstone as well.

    There is about 5 miles between Leigh and Tunbridge Wells and 5 miles between Leigh and Sevenoaks but Maidstone is a good 15 miles from Leigh so quite a jaunt in those days.

  • #2
    I don't think it was the norm for non-cons to be christened twice - a lot of mine were non-con and that does not appear to have happened.

    I think sometimes children were christened in the parish church too as that was the local administration system in those days and you couldn't get parish relief if you weren't recorded in the parish register.

    Margaret

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    • #3
      Thank you Margaret, I haven't come across any other non-cons in my family so have no knowledge about them. Tried googling but it mainly deals with the creation of the church not the 'ins and outs'.

      I was given transcripts of the Leigh Parish records and the 4 Marchant children who were christened into the Wesleyan faith were not baptised in Leigh.

      Another strange thing which I shall probably not be able to solve is why Harriet left Leigh in Kent in 1844, went up to London and married Stephen Hitchcock from Leigh. They then returned to Leigh to live!

      Were the non cons strict about marrying outside of their church?

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      • #4
        I don't think they were strict about that and I guess she went to London for work - much like people do today! Perhaps she already knew Stephen before they both went to London and their relationship developed from there.
        Returning to live in Kent would have been dependent on her new husband's occupation and whether he could work in a more rural setting and given they were both from the same place perhaps family there was also a big draw.
        Margaret

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        • #5
          Thank you Margaret I am sure you are right as I can't find either of them in Leigh in the 1841 census and it's only a very small village. In fact I can't find either of them in 1841, there is a Harriet Marchant in Lewisham but no clue if she is min.

          Maybe they decided the wicked city was not a place to raise children.

          Edit - Just checked the marrige cert and Harriet puts her address as Penshurst, Kent and Stephen has River Lane which must be London for them to marry there. Also just remembered did find a Harriet Marchant in Chiddingstone in 1841 which is very near Leigh.
          Last edited by Frazzled; 14-06-12, 08:49.

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          • #6
            have you looked at the churches history? maybe a fire or flood or something made them use another church at times? i have an ancestor who baptised twice, but the first was a non con church, and the next year the family returned to CoE, and he was re christened. or maybe your family couldn't remember if she was christened? i know it's like a week in between, but my mother can't remember what she had for breakfast, let alone anything important a week ago lol

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            • #7
              That's an idea looking at the churches history. It is just typical that when I lived in Tun Wells I didn't know about Harriet's baptism there, I assumed she had been baptised in Leigh where she was born. When I lived there the church was a Methodist church and daughter of the vicar there was one of my school friends....oh if only I'd known!!!

              Don't talk about memory lapses I'm a master.

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              • #8
                (I posted this last night but it didn't appear - thank G for auto restore!)

                You have to be a bit careful with Wesleyan records as they are usually what is known as Circuit records - the Minister carried the book around with him on his "circuit" of the various Wesleyand churches. It was very easy for a baptism to be recorded twice, even though it may only have taken place once.

                I once found one of my noncons baptised about 60 miles from where they lived and I couldn't understand why until I got the circuit record. the baptism had taken place in the child's home but had been recorded at "headquarters" as it were.

                Your child almost certainly wasn't baptised twice.

                Also remember that in the early days of Methodism, Wesleyans were a branch of the C of E until they broke away completely. (I am as it happens, reading a biography of John Wesley. Worthy man he may have been but oh, what a bore he was!).

                Noncons didn't forbid marrying out but

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                • #9
                  As regards marriages, I have quite a number of couples in my family who appear to marry 'away from home' and then move back again. In many cases I'm sure they happened to be working in the other place .... you only need to be resident for a few weeks to be "of this parish".
                  In other cases I think it was to remove themselves from possible family criticism over a second marriage. One widow was running a pub in a village. She married a local person and they both continued running the pub BUT they married in a large town 25 miles away! (date c1860)

                  Anne

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                  • #10
                    Thank you OC that explains it. Where would the circuit records be kept as I would like to know which church she was baptised in, don't suppose they are in the churches anymore.

                    Think part of your message was missed out when you retored it.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks Anne I was wondering if Harriet's parents did not approve of the marrige. The witnesses were Thomas' aunt and uncle so no Marchant connection there. Harriet's father was a farmer and Thomas is put down as a labourer but he actually made cricket balls!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Frazzled View Post
                        Where would the circuit records be kept as I would like to know which church she was baptised in, don't suppose they are in the churches anymore.
                        Where did you find the baptism listed/indexed? It should have its source. Also, there's a good chance that the Methodist church would still have its records, or copies of them
                        Last edited by PhotoFamily; 14-06-12, 13:48.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                          Where did you find the baptism listed/indexed? It should have its source. Also, there's a good chance that the Methodist church would still have its records, or copies of them
                          www.bmdregisters.co.uk has the original non-con records so whilst that is pay per view it should give you the handwritten record if it's on there.

                          Margaret

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Frazzled View Post
                            . Where would the circuit records be kept as I would like to know which church she was baptised in, don't suppose they are in the churches anymore.
                            The circuit registers for my home area are at the local county record office.

                            Jay
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                            • #15
                              I found the baptisms indexed on the familysearch site. If she was baptised in Tunbridge Wells that would be good as I could get my brother to go to the church and find out if the records are still there. Thanks Photofamily

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                              • #16
                                Thanks Margaret will go to the site, it would be nice to see the original record.

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                                • #17
                                  Thanks Janet will contact the county office in Maidstone if my brother can't help.

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                                  • #18
                                    Not many churches have their old registers - the law requires them to be kept in archival conditions and many old churches/chapels can't comply with that law and therefore only keep registers which are in current use.

                                    There was no law requiring noncon churches to keep registers and unfortunately many either didn't bother, or the minister viewed the records as his personal property and kept them at home.

                                    OC

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                      Not many churches have their old registers -OC
                                      All I know - Rosy kindly contacted a Devon Methodist church on my behalf, when I was looking for the baptism of a wayward aunt, about 1867. I understood that they looked thru their records, but she wasn't there.

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                                      • #20
                                        When I enter Harriet's name, yr of birth, place of birth into familysearch, it returns 5 entries for her - one for the 1841 census, the first two are probably duplicates for the last two.

                                        Notice that the last two have little cameras underneath the name, and are subtitled "Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8)": if you click for detail, it will offer to take you to a "partner site", thegenealogist.co.uk - which is the same as www.bmdregisters.co.uk, just under a different name. It's a pay-to-view site.

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