Will and Death Query

[jood]

I have a Will for the late Richard Gorringe who died in London (I think) in 1770.

Could someone please tell me if - because the Will was proved before the Worshipful *(Hauris?)* Simpson Doctor of Laws Surrogate of the Right Worshipful George I say also Doctor of Laws Master Keeper or Commissary of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury lawfully constituted on the Twentieth day of August in the year of our Lord One thousand Seven hundred and Seventy by the oath of Abraham Gorringe the brother of the deceased and the brother named in the said Will to whom Administration was granted of all and singular the goods - does that mean that Richard was important, or is it normal for Wills to be proved like this.

Next query - Does it mean he actually died on 20 August 1770 - and could someone please verify this from another source please?

Third query - which I don't think anyone could help me with :( - who were the parents of Abraham Gorringe born 11 Nov 1731 in Westminster, London and Richard (no birth).

Name is Gorringe, but I have seen it spelt Gorange, so probably Gorrange, Gorring & Goring are also the same name.

[Koromo]

Hi

Up to 1858 probates were granted by ecclesiastical courts and the wording you've quoted is the standard format used then.

From 1858 probates/administrations were under civil law. Typical wording was, "granted at the Principal Registry of the Probate Division of the High Court of Justice."

The date of 20 August 1770 is when the will was proved (granted probate) which was surprisingly soon after death in most cases back then — a matter of days sometimes, but usually within a month or so (unless there had been a problem).

Cheers
K.

[Elaine ..Spain]

- who were the parents of Abraham Gorringe born 11 Nov 1731 in Westminster, London

available on Family Search - parents John and Ann

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NKTB-1Z4

[jood]

Thanks Koromo - does that mean he actually died on 20 August 1770? if not, how do I find out the death date?

I appreciate the explanation of the fancy bits lol

Elaine thank you for the birthdate of Abraham Goringe (as its called there) - this leads to another question - is there a birthdate for his brother Richard with same parents?

Also is there any chance of finding a marriage of these parents John & Ann Goringe?

[Elaine ..Spain]

Elaine thank you for the birthdate of Abraham Goringe (as its called there) - this leads to another question - is there a birthdate for his brother Richard with same parents?

Also is there any chance of finding a marriage of these parents John & Ann Goringe?

Can't see anything on Family Search.

[jood]

Thanks for that Elaine - another brick wall! lol

[Koromo]

... does that mean he actually died on 20 August 1770? if not, how do I find out the death date?

No, 20 August 1770 is when the paperwork was signed by the ecclesiastical court, ie. by the surrogate (representative) of the Master Keeper/Commissary.

I had a quick look on Ancestry's London records, but I'm afraid I couldn't see Richard's burial.

[jood]

Thanks Koromo - this whole family has been a brick wall since the early 1900's :(

No chance of a headstone do you think? he possibly would have been buried at St Martin in the Fields, although he was christened St James', Westminister, Middlesex, England

[margaretmarch]

Thanks Koromo - this whole family has been a brick wall since the early 1900's :(

No chance of a headstone do you think? he possibly would have been buried at St Martin in the Fields,

I would think any headstone would have eroded away by now but there might still be a burial record. Ancestry has some and more are coming on line all the time. If you think it is St Martins in the Field then you might concentrate your search on that to find if records are held and if so where and how to access.
Margaret

[margaretmarch]

There's this record

Forenames:Richard
Surname:GORINGE
Day:26 Month:Oct Year:1768
Age:
Place:Barcombe
Description:St.Mary
County:Sussex,England

Is that a possibility?
Margaret

[jood]

I don't think so Margaret as he died in 1770 and his brother was born 1731 - we just can't find Richards birth or death or burial anywhere.

I don't have Ancestry, but I guess I can google St Martin in the Fields from time to time (says she with her fingers crossed behind her back lol)

Thanks Margaret.

[Elaine ..Spain]

There are some St. Martin in the Fields records on Ancestry
Worth checking from time to time to see what's been added.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=List&dbid=1624&offerid=0%3a7858%3a0

Not sure if this link will work for you if you don't have a subscription - you should get the London England Baptism Marriages & Burials search page - with the dates of the St. Martins in the Fields records on the right.
If it does work you will see that records start at 1799 at the moment - as I said, keep an eye on it to see when any updates have been added .. and then ask for a lookup!

[jood]

I got the thread open thanks Elaine - just about to have dinner, so will check it in a little while. Thanks for that.

[maudarby]

Hi Jood
Is there a date when the will was written? It might be at the very beginning or at the very end just before the witnesses signed.
Moggie

[maudarby]

Hi Jood
Is this your Richard? A bit of a coincidence if it's a different Richard Goringe.
Moggie

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-5003312&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CRICHARD%2CGORINGE&accessmethod=0

[jood]

Beginning (this has been typed from the original will)

In the Name of God Amen
I Richard Gorringe of the Parish of Saint Martin in the Fields, County of Middlesex, Mariner, being of Sound and Disposing mind and memory do hereby make this my last Will and Testament. First and principally, I command my soul into the hands of Almighty God hoping for remission of all my sins through the words of Jesus Christ my blessed Saviour and redeemer and my Body to the Earth or Fire as shall please God. And as for such worldly estate and effects which I shall be possessed of or entitled unto at the time of my passage I give and bequeath the same as followeth, that is to say, I give and bequeath unto my brother Abraham Gorringe of the same place, book seller all such coynes sum and sums of money as now is or ...

End of will

This Will was proved at London before the Worshipful *(Hauris?)* Simpson Doctor of Laws Surrogate of the Right Worshipful George I say also Doctor of Laws Master Keeper or Commissary of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury lawfully constituted on the Twentieth day of August in the year of our Lord One thousand Seven hundred and Seventy by the oath of Abraham Gorringe the brother of the deceased and the brother named in the said Will to whom Administration was granted of all and singular the goods, chattels and credits of the said deceased he having been first sworn duly to administer.

HOWEVER -------------- What do you make of these notes in my computer ............

Richard Gorringe, a bachelor and previously belonging to His Majesty's Sloop "The Druid" left his chattels etc to Abraham, who pre-deceased him, and the Executor & Universal Trustee named in the said Will was vested to Ann Gorringe, Spinster, the daughter and Administratrix of the rights of the said Abraham Gorringe deceased, she having been first sworn duly to administer.

[jood]

There are some St. Martin in the Fields records on Ancestry
Worth checking from time to time to see what's been added.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?...d=0%3a7858%3a0

Elaine I opened up the search - and put in Richard Goring died 1770 - where - I then put Middlesex.

There were two that I could see, but as I don't have ancestry i could not open them.

[jood]

So Maudarby, it looks like our Richard, and he was in the Navy - what do I open to access his naval records?

[Anne in Carlisle]

Just a point about the date of Probate. Obviously this was always AFTER the death (!!!) but the time could be anything from a few days to many years. I have a Will that was written 1783; man died 1785; Probate 1804. His wife just carried on running the business for years and never bothered, apparently, until (I assume) some legal thing cropped up. It was not her death as she didn't die until 1825.

Anne

[jood]

Just a point about the date of Probate. Obviously this was always AFTER the death (!!!) but the time could be anything from a few days to many years. I have a Will that was written 1783; man died 1785; Probate 1804. His wife just carried on running the business for years and never bothered, apparently, until (I assume) some legal thing cropped up. It was not her death as she didn't die until 1825.

Thats true, but from memory his brother Abraham was already deceased at the time the will was proved'

because the Will was proved before the Worshipful *(Hauris?)* Simpson Doctor of Laws Surrogate of the Right Worshipful George I say also Doctor of Laws Master Keeper or Commissary of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury lawfully constituted on the Twentieth day of August in the year of our Lord One thousand Seven hundred and Seventy by the oath of Abraham Gorringe the brother of the deceased and the brother named in the said Will to whom Administration was granted of all and singular the goods

Abraham died 07 Aug 1776 and I thought Richard died 1770 - that can't be right. How can a Will be proved before he died?

Hmmmmm - that's messed things up a bit.