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  • Education puzzle

    Have always thought in poor families, education especially for girls was pretty rare, but have found what think is my Grandmother in school. The school was The Orange St. School Southwark, this surprised me and was even more surprised at the age she would have been, her age would have been 3. Unfortunately my Ancestry sub has just lapsed (was going to take a break from hobby for a while) the year record shown is 1892 (can see that but not record) and she was born 1st Apr 1889.
    Could this be right, googled the school and it has a very interesting history, wondered if any others had come across something similar or any knowledge of it happerning.

  • #2
    Do you have a name for a search please.
    herky
    Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by herky View Post
      Do you have a name for a search please.
      Its Ada Laundy, her father was Edward Laundy

      Comment


      • #4
        Not sure if this helps-
        Ada Laundy, date of birth 8 April 1889
        Date of admission - 9 May 1892
        Parent of guardian - E Charles, Hawker
        32 Loman St
        Last edited by herky; 01-06-12, 23:47.
        herky
        Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

        Comment


        • #5
          E charles was a Hawker address was 32 Loman Street

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          • #6
            Yes that is her, though her birth as far as aware 1st Apr, a year before a marriage took place (my Mum would not be amused) was this rare or is my understanding of the times wrong

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            • #7
              When I do my sums a high percentage of mine were "with child" on marriage.
              herky
              Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

              Comment


              • #8
                haha herky. oh illegitimate children were more common than you'd think. specially if the parents married after birth, in some cases as much as 40 years later......not in my experience though, and usuallu because a previous spouse was still alive....

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                • #9
                  It doesn't seem to have been rare for children to start school around age 3 - I've found several instances.
                  Judith passed away in October 2018

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mikeg13 View Post
                    Have always thought in poor families, education especially for girls was pretty rare, but have found what think is my Grandmother in school. The school was The Orange St. School Southwark, this surprised me and was even more surprised at the age she would have been, her age would have been 3. Unfortunately my Ancestry sub has just lapsed (was going to take a break from hobby for a while) the year record shown is 1892 (can see that but not record) and she was born 1st Apr 1889.
                    Could this be right, googled the school and it has a very interesting history, wondered if any others had come across something similar or any knowledge of it happerning.
                    Sometimes these schools were more like homes or orphanages as opposed to the kind we know today. Had the mother died by then or soon after? Just thinking maybe dad couldn't cope as he would have to work and had no help with the children if wife not able.
                    Margaret

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                    • #11
                      Ever since birth records began in the 1500s, illegitimacy has hovered around ten percent of births. This rate rises during wartime, for obvious reasons. Only in the last 25 years has the rate risen and stayed risen.

                      My farming ancestors rarely married until the intended bride had produced at least one son - why would a farmer want to marry a barren woman?

                      The only sector of society which has consistently produced virgin brides - young ones - is the gentry and aristocracy, whose virgin daughters were a highly valued commodity in the marriage market and could make or break a family's fortunes. The hoi polloi just did what has always come naturally, never mind what Church and State said they should do!

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        Interesting OC.
                        And of course the extra percentage of legitimate births where there was a rushed marriage in order that the child was born within wedlock.
                        Many of mine were quite "far gone" before marriage - no home pregnancy testing kits then!
                        herky
                        Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sorry, should have defined illegitimacy for the purpose of the survey - illegitimacy in this context meant a child conceived before marriage, not necessarily born before marriage.

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            Even more interesting OC - it is lower than I would have thought - perhaps my lot were a bit naughty!!!

                            Interesting that it is so low with lack of reliable contraception. But I guess it was more the done thing to "wait" until after marriage.

                            I sometimes think our perceptions of times gone by are quite different from the reality. I remember studying at university a topic called "The myth of the golden age".
                            In other words we have preconceived ideas about how wonderful etc life was in the past - little crime, caring families etc, but in reality the problems of today did previously exist and in some cases were far more prevalent than we could ever have imagined. The main difference is that now we have full media coverage etc and everything is out in the open, whereas before it was kept behind closed doors.
                            That said - when I think back to my schooldays (along time ago) it was very rare to see a pregnant schoolgirl.
                            Interesting topic.
                            herky
                            Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Herky

                              Yes, very rare to see a pregnant schoolgirl in my youth too - any pregnant schoolgirls were safely locked away in M & B homes, or (in one case I know about in the early 1960s) in the local lunatic asylum.

                              I do agree though - we were fed a diet of tripe about the past and how high morals were and so on. I remember my discovery that "The average age of death for a victorian was 40" which somehow came to mean that no one lived past the age of 40. I realised this was rubbish when I got back in my family tree to discover that my ancestors in the early 1700s very often lived into their 70s, 80s and 90s. Of course, to get an average age of 40 at death, you need one newborn to die and one 80 year old to die.

                              At least one ancestor had some idea of family planning - her children were born at two year intervals, so nicely spaced it could only have been deliberate. Perhaps abstinence? Deliberate anyway, whatever the reason.

                              Possibly the reason why illegitimacy never rose much above 10% was because although it was rife, if a female had no family support and the man wouldn't marry her, she was completely on her own and the workhouse beckoned. That was probably enough to keep many girls on the straight and narrow.

                              OC

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                              • #16
                                Probably one reason for 2 year spacing of children is breast feeding which delayed ovulation (sometimes).
                                Often if an infant died very young then the next child came along quite quickly.
                                Many of mine have nice 2 yearish intervals and if I find a gap then I go on the search for further children.
                                Sorry Mike for going a bit off topic.
                                herky
                                Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by herky View Post
                                  Probably one reason for 2 year spacing of children is breast feeding which delayed ovulation (sometimes).
                                  Often if an infant died very young then the next child came along quite quickly.
                                  Many of mine have nice 2 yearish intervals and if I find a gap then I go on the search for further children.
                                  Sorry Mike for going a bit off topic.
                                  No need to say sorry, exactly that sort of comment was looking for, my surprise on finding record, sort of made me re-think my views on the past and wondered if others had found other things that made them question what our parents relations etc had passed to us. Was going to have a break for a while from hobby, but googling about the school she went to has really interested me and now wondering if to re-join ancestry or another site. Do love history especially the social aspects of it.

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                                  • #18
                                    Mike

                                    Another big surprise was that my farming lot all went to school in the early 1700s - including the females. This was because their remote village had been given a school "for all good Christians" in 1703 and the roll book included just about every child in the parish. The same parish which hung one of my family for being a witch in the same year.

                                    I too love this aspect of the research - it brings those names and dates alive and turns them into real and interesting people who led unexpected lives.

                                    OC

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                                    • #19
                                      im surprised kids would be in school as early as 3. i guess no need of childcare if the kids are in school all day though.

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