Marriage of Thomas Ball and Elizabeth ?

[JULES65]

Hi, I have come to a dead end with this family. I have a Thomas Ball born 1814 in Bedworth, Warwickshire. I have him on the 1861 census living in Birmingham with his wife Elizabeth and 5 children. I cannot find them on earlier census. Their children are Thomas b1841 John Ball aged 18, Willm Barker Ball aged 15, Sarah Ann Barker Ball aged 9 and Mary Jane Barker Ball aged 5. I have had no luck whatsoever in finding Thomas and Elizabeth's marriage. I did think maybe Elizabeth's maiden name may have been Barker but the only marriage I can find is in 1858 which is after all the children were born!

In fact the 1861 census is the only one I can find this family on.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Oh, Elizabeth was born in Birmingham around 1813 if that's any help.

[Fuzzy]

Hi Jules, If you get one of the childrens birth certificates it will tell you the mothers maiden name. It does sound very likely from the names that the mothers name will be Barker, lots of mine did this especially if they weren't married at the time the children were born! some of mine waited until they had had 5 of 6 children before they married whilst some didn't bother at all!

this is the family on the 1861:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=WARRG9_2143_2146-0539&fn=Thos&ln=Ball&st=r&ssrc=&pid=20995264

[Elaine ..Spain]

There is a Baker/Barker/Ball combination in this 1851 census

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1851%2c&rank=0&gsfn=thomas&gsln=ball&sx=&gsco=&s0RealGL=UKICen&f1=&f2=&f5=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1814&rs_81004011__date=5&f14=&f15=bedworth&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=UKICEN&fh=0&h=9259580&recoff=8+9

HO107; Piece: 2060; Folio: 372; Page: 5

[Elaine ..Spain]

Can you give a link to the 1861 census please. Can't see it at the moment.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Ignore that, found it!

[Fuzzy]

Baptism of son Thomas:

Name: Thomas Ball
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1840
Parish: Bedworth
Baptism Date: 18 Oct 1842
Father's Name: Thomas Ball
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Ball

[Fuzzy]

Ignore that, found it!

I posted it elaine LOL

[Elaine ..Spain]

Possible marriage

Marriages Mar 1858
BALL Thomas
BARKER Elizabeth
BEVAN James
Sawyer Sarah
Birmingham 6d 53

[JULES65]

There is a Baker/Barker/Ball combination in this 1851 census

http://search.ancestry.ca/iexec?htx=View&r=5543&dbid=1588&iid=30927_2000901369-04490&fn=Charles+Albert&ln=Glasspool&st=r&ssrc=&pid=265492

HO107; Piece: 2060; Folio: 372; Page: 5

Sorry Elaine, this link doesn't seem to be working. It takes me to a Canada Oceans arrival record.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Sorry Jules, something strange was happening with my browser. I've just corrected it in my post.
Should be:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...580&recoff=8+9

[JULES65]

Sorry Jules, something strange was happening with my browser. I've just corrected it in my post.
Should be:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...580&recoff=8+9

Thanks Elaine, just off to check it out!

[Fuzzy]

Possible marriage

Marriages Mar 1858
BALL Thomas
BARKER Elizabeth
BEVAN James
Sawyer Sarah
Birmingham 6d 53

Beat me to it Elaine! I think this is the very marriage that Jules found but was worried that it after all children born, I have so many cases of marriages after the event of loads of kids, I would say that this is definately them, the baptism I posted would give you a real clue to the birth reg if you wanted to cross all t's and dot i's.

[Elaine ..Spain]

I think the 1851 census has the status for both Elizabeth and Thomas as widow(er) - but it's not very clear!

[Fuzzy]

I think the 1851 census has the status for both Elizabeth and Thomas as widow(er) - but it's not very clear!

You are right Elaine, have blown the image right up and that is what it says

[JULES65]

I think the 1851 census has the status for both Elizabeth and Thomas as widow(er) - but it's not very clear!

I agree Elaine and Fuzzy, so it appears that Thomas Snr was lodging with his son with Elizabeth Barker and her son William Barker. They then went on to have two daughters together and then get married. I didn't think people did that in those days! lol. So I wonder how I can find out about Thomas Ball's first marriage? With Elizabeth at least I know the surname of her first husband.

Thanks for all your help.

[JULES65]

Having had a quick look at the family search website, I have Thomas Ball marrying an Elizabeth Ford on 25 Dec 1834 and the birth of Thomas Ball junior with parents Thomas Ball and Elizabeth which is what caused the confusion with Thomas then marrying another Elizabeth.

[Fuzzy]

Having had a quick look at the family search website, I have Thomas Ball marrying an Elizabeth Ford on 25 Dec 1834 and the birth of Thomas Ball junior with parents Thomas Ball and Elizabeth which is what caused the confusion with Thomas then marrying another Elizabeth.

LOL Jules, from what I have discovered doing my tree they did it all the time! My favourite is marriage 17 years after the birth of the first child, I had almost given up finding that one! They also had a habit of marrying a woman with the same name as the first wife!!

[JULES65]

I agree Elaine and Fuzzy, so it appears that Thomas Snr was lodging with his son with Elizabeth Barker and her son William Barker. They then went on to have two daughters together and then get married. I didn't think people did that in those days! lol. So I wonder how I can find out about Thomas Ball's first marriage? With Elizabeth at least I know the surname of her first husband.

Thanks for all your help.

It's me again! On the 1861 census there is another son John Ball born in Bedworth so I presume the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Ford. I wonder where he was in 1851?

[JULES65]

It's me again! On the 1861 census there is another son John Ball born in Bedworth so I presume the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Ford. I wonder where he was in 1851?

Sorry, bit quick off the mark there. I have found him! He was on the next page of the census!!

[Elaine ..Spain]

Could this be Thomas and his first wife Elizabeth in 1841

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=thomas&gsln=ball&sx=&f1=Warwickshire&f2=&f3=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1840&rs_81004011__date=1&_82004011=&_82004013=&f7=&f20=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1841&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=5&h=10875444&recoff=6+7

- 2 children, Charlotte age 3 and Thomas aged 5 months.