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  • Ensor family

    I have Joseph Ensor (shoemaker) and Ann Collins who marry 18 Feb 1822 in Stepney

    From the 1841 census:

    Joseph Ensor 45
    Ann Ensor 45
    Ann Ensor 20
    Joseph Ensor 15
    Sarah Ensor 13
    Sophia Ensor 9
    Benjn Ensor 7
    Louisa Ensor 1


    Joseph says not born in county and then the inconsiderate devil dies in 1847!

    Anyway that aside:

    my direct ancestor is their daughter ann b1821 (ish) who went onto marry Richard Lambert

    funny thing is they had 9 children and she seems to be the only one who was not baptised. I have all the others including an Ann Elizabeth b1815 I was starting to think that this Ann and my Ann were one in the same BUT I found the details of her death today and the address matches the one given at her baptism. Why have all the others baptised and not the second Ann? OR is it that her particular record has not turned up yet?!
    KAREN xx

  • #2
    Thought it odd that they had a child in 1815 and did not marry until 1822 and then starting having children one after the other............well thanks to new records just found this!!



    Would welcome a second opinion but it looks as if Ann was a widow?!
    KAREN xx

    Comment


    • #3
      Well what started as a post for a query for a baptism for my Ann b1821 is turning into a real mystery!

      If ann was a widow when she married Joseph in 1822, what was she doing having a child with him in 1815? Her birth year is circa 1796 so would would have been about 19 when she had the child that died, so when does her first marriage fit in??

      I found two possible marriages one between a Ann Kelley and John Collins 4 May 1818 and also Ann Elizabeth Lewis and Walter Collins 05 Oct 1817 (this seems likely as child she had with Joseph was called Ann Elizabeth)

      I am totally confused though, did she have an illegitimate child with Joseph, have it baptised. then go onto marry someone else and then marry Joseph????????
      KAREN xx

      Comment


      • #4
        Walter Collins 47
        Ann Collins 40
        Alfred Collins 10
        John Collins 2
        Mary Ann Collins 4

        Right i can rule out the second one!

        Cannot find a John Collins with a wife Ann in the right area on the 1841.
        Last edited by Fuzzy; 19-05-12, 12:18.
        KAREN xx

        Comment


        • #5
          it may be that your anne, is her mother's daughter via a previous husband. or anne was christened in her mother's maiden name, if you can find out what it is lol. i have an aunt in the 1840's, her parents married later, but she always used her mother's name.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
            it may be that your anne, is her mother's daughter via a previous husband. or anne was christened in her mother's maiden name, if you can find out what it is lol. i have an aunt in the 1840's, her parents married later, but she always used her mother's name.
            Hiya Kyle,

            I hadn't thought that maybe my Ann was just the mothers child or child by her first husband! What is really really odd though is the child born in 1815 was baptised as Ann Elizabeth ENSOR with parents Joseph (shoemaker) and Ann. Have a horrible idea that this will be yet one more for the unsolved pile, trouble is that pile is now much bigger than the solved one LOL

            On the 1851 Ann gives birth year as 1791 so she is older than I thought.
            KAREN xx

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            • #7
              Knowing that she could have been born in 1791 that would have made her 24 when she had the child in 1815 with Joseph, perhaps she was already a widow by then, but if that is the case why wait until 1822 to get married?!
              KAREN xx

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              • #8
                Hi Fuzzy

                Just a thought but if they married in 1822 that was after the second Anne was born as well?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Frazzled,

                  As I don't have a definate date of birth for her I am not sure if they married before or after she was born, she like many others varies the date of birth, it is somewhere between 1819-1822. I still cannot get my head around the child born to them in 1815. Now I know she is older I think she was probably widowed before 1815, had the child with Joseph and then married him in 1822, why the wait I do not know unless of course her first was ill and they were waiting for him to die! another mystery destined to remain unsolved! I wish they had gotten round to getting people to put there fathers names on marriage certs before 1837!
                  KAREN xx

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was thinking along the same lines, that she was married, left the first husband for whatever reason and couldn't marry until he died c 1822. Have you traced Ann Collins back, do you know if that is her maiden name?

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                    • #11
                      They also had a daughter Charlotte before they married - born 1821, baptised 1845.
                      Glen

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Frazzled View Post
                        I was thinking along the same lines, that she was married, left the first husband for whatever reason and couldn't marry until he died c 1822. Have you traced Ann Collins back, do you know if that is her maiden name?
                        Bit of a dead end with Ann Collins, I tried looking for possible marriages and did come up with two but discounted one of them as found them on the 1841. Very difficult as do not know her name, pretty sure it is not Collins, unless of course she reverted to that name after her first marriage! Lordy knows!
                        KAREN xx

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Oakum Picker View Post
                          They also had a daughter Charlotte before they married - born 1821, baptised 1845.
                          Thanks Glen, Yes I did have Charlotte she was born on the 25th May 1821 so also definately before the marriage, she went on to marry a Mr Juggins (titter titter). It is the daughter born to them in 1815 which is really bothering me. I have several families who had a child maybe a year of so before they married but this 1815 business has me stumped! Like Frazzled I really think that she married a Mr Collins and then for some reason wanted out but couldn't marry Joseph until 1822. My money is on the husband still being alive until then. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense..............mind you when does any of this tree building stuff make sense LOL
                          KAREN xx

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Amazing what difference a day makes! Just found another child for Joseph Ensor and Ann ?? a baptism record giving her actual date of birth. 31st July 1839. I thought i cannot be that lucky, will she be registered??? YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!

                            Name: Louisa Ensor
                            Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1839
                            Registration district: Stepney
                            Inferred County: London, Middlesex
                            Volume: 2
                            Page: 416

                            Will send off for birth certificate. I have several ladies who have been widowed and then go on the have children and all their names are listed on the birth certificate of the child. I am hoping and praying that Ann had been honest with the registrar! If it comes back with maiden name of Collins could it may that the banns were incorrect and she was inadvertantly put down as a widow instead of spinster? Or do I have to add her to the pile of unsolveds?

                            Will wait with baited breath until the certificate arrives!
                            KAREN xx

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                            • #15
                              Great news, as you say lets hope it gives a different maiden name not Collins. Poor Ann she was having children for 24 years!

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Frazzled View Post
                                Great news, as you say lets hope it gives a different maiden name not Collins. Poor Ann she was having children for 24 years!
                                Thanks Frazzled, fingers crossed! Yes poor Ann, and then she is widowed in 1847!
                                KAREN xx

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                                • #17
                                  Certificate arrived today, and YES YES YES mothers name is Ann Ensor, late Collings (different spelling!) formerly REDMAN!!
                                  KAREN xx

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                                  • #18
                                    Just found her marriage

                                    Ann Redmon married John Collins on the 29th of august 1808. According to the 1851 census she was born abt 1791, so that would have made of around 17. I wonder what happened to John Collins? He must have died before she married Joseph in 1822, always assuming that this marriage is not a bigamists one?!

                                    looking for a suitable baptism for a Ann Redman b 1791 (ish) according to the emunerator Seven dials was her birthplace and then after it scrawled Surrey. Having googled Seven dials was a hum dinger of a place:

                                    A guest post by Emily Brand. The voices of Victorian London, as numerous and as voluble as they are, allow us to paint a fairly intimate portrait of life on the streets of the nineteenth-century ca…


                                    Googling further:
                                    Seven Dials. .... A History of the County of Middlesex:
                                    Thanks emunerator, have been lookin in the wrong place!!
                                    Last edited by Fuzzy; 26-05-12, 17:27. Reason: added text
                                    KAREN xx

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Found a death of a John Collins who was born in 1764 and died in 1814, in Westminster (Where a John Collins married Ann Redmon) If and thats IF this is his death he would have been 44 at the time of their marriage. He dies the year before Ann and Joseph have their first child. I did find another John Collins who died in 1822 and I thought this more likely but he died at the end of the year and ann and Joseph marry and the beginning of the year.

                                      Just found a death for a John Collins b 1790 and dying in 1819 aged just 29 also in Middlesex. This would not explain child with Joseph in 1815 and then in 1819, unless of course she left him soon after she married him?

                                      I think there are two many possibilities to say for sure, will have to be one of those I will never know ones!! Have to be content that I know Anns maiden name!!
                                      Last edited by Fuzzy; 26-05-12, 17:41.
                                      KAREN xx

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hi Fuzzy

                                        Great news! Now you have the Redmon name. Looked at the link you gave, as you said what a hum dinger of a place.

                                        I wouldn't discount the first John Collins you have listed because of his age, maybe he married Ann because she was young and alone with no family to rely on? Have you found any children from this marriage?

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