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  • Journeymen

    Hi

    Were 'journeymen' their version of modern days 'travellers'?

    Many thanks

    Debbs

  • #2
    Definition for you Debbs ..
    Journeyman - A tradesman who has served his trade apprenticeship and mastered his craft, not bound to serve a master, but originally hired by the day. The name derives from the French for day - jour.

    Source: http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/ (Old occupations website)
    Elaine







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    • #3
      Oh thanks Elaine, I shall store that link as good resource

      So he was actually quite skilled then, the opposite to what I thought, a bit of an 'odd-job' man
      Debbs

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      • #4


        Also a victorian occupation website Debbs that i have found really handy! Came across Stevedore the other day, wouldn't have had a clue but for the site!!
        KAREN xx

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        • #5
          Lol! Thats so funny as when I very first started this a few months I found my GGfather was Stevedore, I had some romantic notion about his job, bless!

          Then I found out what it meant!:o

          But thanks, its another good one for the link library

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          • #6
            Um, can I point out that both those words are in the dictionary! No specialised site required.

            OC

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            • #7
              ooops! Thats us told off!

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              • #8
                Nooooooo, not telling anyone off, just pointing out that the dictionary contains most words and is an easier first port of call than specialised websites.

                OC

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                • #9
                  I was more interested to know if there were any other descriptions or opinions of the trade name as I have a line in my family that I now suspect were Gypsies or Travellers, so just trying to clarify the things they wrote as their trade in the census. I do try to source other places prior to coming on here and using up other peoples time, but sometimes just a different 'take' on things helps.
                  My huge Encarta dictionary is never far from my side,I can assure you :0 it is my friend, especially since starting this new hobby - strike that - addiction! lol!
                  Debbs
                  Last edited by Debbss; 14-05-12, 21:58.

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                  • #10
                    I don't think the expression Traveller was used in the 19th century for gypsies. Traveller is a late 20th century description for people who lived on the move with no fixed abode but who are NOT gypsies or tinkers.

                    In the 19th century, a traveller would have been a commercial traveller - what we would call a salesman today, lol, but one who travelled around with a suitcase full of tinned peaches etc, visiting grocers and so on.

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      Thing is, what sort of journeyman is your ancestor? It covers lots of skilled workers, such as carpenters, blacksmiths and so on

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Heather Positive Thinker View Post
                        Thing is, what sort of journeyman is your ancestor? It covers lots of skilled workers, such as carpenters, blacksmiths and so on
                        Great minds! I was just thinking that as I read the thread and turned the page!! I have a couple of journeymen in my tree, one is a shoemaker and the other a housepainter.
                        KAREN xx

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                          Um, can I point out that both those words are in the dictionary! No specialised site required.

                          OC
                          Oh dear OC, have a terrible confession to make, I do not own a dictionary. This is the trouble with technology, we get to rely on it for everything!
                          KAREN xx

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                          • #14
                            usually a journeyman carpenter, blacksmith etc has done his apprenticeship and travels around looking for work. that's the gist i get, i can't remember if it is for experience as part of his apprenticeship or full on work.

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                            • #15
                              Have to disagree Kylejustin. As mentioned above the journey is from the work jour meaning day. After completing an apprenticeship a man would become a journeyman, paid by the day. He might go on to become a master of his trade, or remain a journeyman, but the term did not have anything to do with travelling around.
                              Judith passed away in October 2018

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                                Have to disagree Kylejustin. As mentioned above the journey is from the work jour meaning day. After completing an apprenticeship a man would become a journeyman, paid by the day. He might go on to become a master of his trade, or remain a journeyman, but the term did not have anything to do with travelling around.
                                That is right Judith, I looked this up from the site I posted earlier when I found Journeymen in my tree:

                                Journeyman one who served his apprenticeship and mastered his craft - time served, and no longer had to work for someone else (though they often still did)
                                KAREN xx

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                                  After completing an apprenticeship a man would become a journeyman, paid by the day. He might go on to become a master of his trade, or remain a journeyman, but the term did not have anything to do with travelling around.
                                  That's what I understood, too - with an emphasis that he also did not have his own apprentices - i.e., he was trained, had completed whatever apprenticeship was required, but did not have his own shop, and did not train apprentices. The latter two might change later in time.

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                                  • #18
                                    Fuzzy

                                    Not owning a dictionary isn't a problem - there are many online dictionaries.

                                    I'm not being critical, just pointing out that you don't always need a sledge hammer to crack a walnut, lol.

                                    OC

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                      Fuzzy

                                      Not owning a dictionary isn't a problem - there are many online dictionaries.

                                      I'm not being critical, just pointing out that you don't always need a sledge hammer to crack a walnut, lol.


                                      OC
                                      LOL, I know you weren't being critical OC. I must admit I berate my children all the time for relying to heavily on technology and I am just as bad!
                                      KAREN xx

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                                      • #20
                                        Don't forget our A-Z Big Book of Genealogy in the reference library.
                                        Elaine







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