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  • Opinions wanted please.

    My husband's uncle died suddenly a couple of weeks ago & at the funeral, his twin (my fil) and sister were discussing family history. The sister is interested & so my husband is taking over some of my reseach today, when his uncle is buried.
    One of my brickwalls with this family is their grandmother Edith Shaw. She apparently left the family sometime after 1924 & seems to have vanished, although I am hoping hubby's aunt might know more.
    According to her marriage cert, her father was Thomas Shaw, an ag lab, she shown as being 21 although I now think she was only 20. In 1901 Edith Shaw aged 13 was a servant in Tyrely Shropshire, in the same place was a family Thomas Shaw 39, wife Mary 38, daughter Elizabeth 11 & son Thomas 4. Thomas senior is a carter. in 1891 the same family, less Thomas junior, are in Little Drayton, Thomas is an ag lab, there is additionally a daughter Adelaide aged 4. I raised this a few years ago & Julie pointed out that Adelaide and Edith were versions of the same name, so I was confident that this was the right family. I have been unable to find a birth for Edith Shaw that fits & although I found a marriage for Thomas to a Mary Ann Bowler it was in 1888, after Edith was born (1888 Market Drayton). I have now found a birth for an Adelaide Bowdler which fits (1887 Market Drayton) & I wonder if this was a mistranscription & it should actually be Bowler? There is no Adelaide Bowdler in 1891, the only Adelaide i could find being Adelaide Shaw & I couldn't find a death either. The index was typed & could easily have been mistranscribed.

    I'd welcome your thoughts please?
    Last edited by Lynn The Forest Fan; 07-05-12, 11:25.
    Lynn

  • #2
    Perhaps the Adelaide Bowdler birth certificate would be the best way to go? It does sound quite promising Lynn.
    p.s. I have checked both the marriage and the birth entries and the names are as stated. So if it's the right one it would have been a mistranscription.
    Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 07-05-12, 11:29.
    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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    • #3
      I am sure that you must have looked,but are the Parish records available? You could then see if Adelaide was illigitimate and trawl to see if you can find an Edith.Bowdler and Bowler could be the same.This kind of thing makes you doubt that you have the right person,it has happened to me,but I think that if you can eliminate all other possibilities,then you have probably got the right person. Fran

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      • #4
        Having googled yesterday and found that Nancy/Ann are versions of the same name.
        Nancy \n(a)-ncy, nan-cy\ as a girl's name is pronounced NAN-cee. Variant of Ann (Hebrew) "grace". Originally a nickname first used as a given name in the 18th century. First Lady Nancy Reagan; skater Nancy Kerrigan; writer Nancy Mitford.

        I tried doing that for Edith/Adelaide. I cannot see to find a link to the two names:

        names and origins and meanings below.

        Adelaide, German, same as Adeline, Adeline, German, a princess
        Edith, Saxon, happiness.

        Hope someone will prove me wrong, but it doesn't look like they are interchangeable to me
        KAREN xx

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        • #5
          thought this might help others looking for a birth of Edith Shaw circa 1888 who are not familiar with that part of the country:

          KAREN xx

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          • #6
            No, I haven't heard that Edith and Adelaide are interchangeable either - they aren't in my families.

            OC

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            • #7
              Lynn, Do you know for certain that Edith Shaw was born in Market Drayton? I don't know how much info you know about her for certain. I suppose what I am asking is that if you know for certain from family then you would know that the servant on he 1901 is yours. Or have you got Market Drayton as a birthplace from the 1901? Hope that makes sense!

              Have had no luck finding a Edith Shaw in 1888/89 in the Market Drayton area
              KAREN xx

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              • #8
                It was Julie, Darksecretz who said they names were connected, her gt grandmother was Adeline. The marriage cert has her address as being Market Drayton.
                Unfortunately I have never found any parish records for the area online to look through.
                I should add that my fil has some recollection of an Elizabeth & Thomas, which would fit in with the family, although they are vague.
                The other problem with Edith is not having a death for her, although she was dead by 1943 according to her son's Scottish death cert.
                Last edited by Darksecretz; 08-05-12, 12:27.
                Lynn

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                • #9
                  When did the marriage take place? Is it worth checking the address on the nearest census to see if there is anyone living there that might be a clue.

                  If you have got no evidence of her birth place then you're probably going to have to find all those with the same name and year of birth and eliminate them to see which might be yours.

                  I did not think that Edith was interchangeable with Adelaide so for the moment I would leave that out of my searching.

                  Margaret
                  Last edited by margaretmarch; 07-05-12, 13:20.

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                  • #10
                    The marriage took place in 1907 in Flint, North Wales, which is where her husband lived, she would have been 5 months pregnant with my fil's father. The address was Norton Wood, Bella Port Market Drayton
                    Lynn

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                    • #11
                      I hate these brickwalls Lynn, it so frustrating when there is no one in the family to ask. It difficult re Market Drayton, just because she was living there when she married doesn't necessarily mean she was born there. Having a death cert would certainly have helped pin her year of birth down, having said that I have many death certs which have the wrong birth year down! they dont make it easy for us to find them do they Lynn??!
                      KAREN xx

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                      • #12
                        No they don't! She had her last child in 1922 & my fil who was born 1934 has no memory of her being around. Her husband, Patrick Lyons died in 1963.

                        I have a go at searching for the address in 1901 but couldn't find it :(
                        Last edited by Lynn The Forest Fan; 07-05-12, 13:48.
                        Lynn

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                        • #13
                          Is your Edith the one showing as Edith Lyons, aged 24, born Market Drayton, on the 1911 census?
                          Judith passed away in October 2018

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                          • #14
                            Yes she is Judith, I had totally forgotten that , so now we do have "proof" that is where she was from. Thank heavens, I was beginning to doubt my sanity!
                            Lynn

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                            • #15
                              How about Edith Bowler born Q3 1887 in Market Drayton

                              or am I following a red herring with Bowler surname?
                              Last edited by JudithM; 07-05-12, 13:58.
                              Judith passed away in October 2018

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                              • #16
                                That would certainly fit Have to go now as son wants pc, will look for her later thanks
                                Lynn

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                                • #17
                                  Sadly, there is an Edith Bowler in Market Drayton in 1891, so this is not my Edith.
                                  Lynn

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                                  • #18
                                    Theory:
                                    A couple called Thomas BOWLER and Sarah BEMBOW married in Market Drayton 1868.
                                    On 1881 census they had 5 children including Mary BOWLER aged 9 (birth Q4 1871 in Market Drayton)
                                    In 1891 Thomas BOWLER 46 and wife Sarah 40 were in Market Drayton with 3 children - Fanny 8. Frances 6 and Edith BOWLER aged 3 - fitting with birth of Edith BOWLER in Q3 1887 Market Drayton.
                                    Edith was described as daughter but could she be an illegitimate granddaughter, probably daughter of Mary?
                                    Mary Ann BOWLER married Thomas SHAW in Q3 1888 in Market Drayton. Did Edith later take her step father's surname - or he could indeed have been her natural father.
                                    Judith passed away in October 2018

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                                    • #19
                                      Thats a very good theory, but there are 2 problems. 1 Mary Ann is shown in 1891 as being 29 & in 1901 39. 2 what happened to Adelaide shown with the family in 1891?
                                      Lynn

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                                      • #20
                                        that theory re mary bowler seems to work for now. i agree adelaide and edith are not interchangeable. in norman times, a lot of queens called edith were also known as matilda......

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