Can anyone help with Latin & Polish on baptismal cert?

[Prairie Chicken]

First, I'm struggling trying to get an image which I can attach to ask questions of, so if no image comes up with this post, or you can't read it ... I'm back to square one. If you can read the jpeg attachment, can anyone help me determine Antonina's mother's name? Her father's name was Jacobus Wrona.

[Elaine ..Spain]

The image may be too small for anyone to help! You really need to upload it to an external site such as Photobucket and then post the link on the forum.
We have a help guide for using Photobucket in our Reference & How To Guides section - click here

[Prairie Chicken]

Thanks for the response Elaine. I've been in the Reference area for well over an hour but I hadn't looked at the Photobucket link. I've resisted that site for a long time, but may have to use it if no one else can get at the cert. Is there a way to upload thru Facebook, does anyone know?

[Elaine ..Spain]

If you don't like Photobucket, then I think Imageshack and possibly Flickr are alternatives, although I have to admit I don't use either so can't help with instructions!

[Prairie Chicken]

Let's see if this will allow access to the image. http://www.flickr.com/photos/msprairiechicken/

[Christine in Herts]

Not enormous - but big enough to be readable! EDIT: I could click on it to bring it up to "very readable".

I'll have a look and see what I can guess / deduce. There have been some Latin scholars on the Forum, so you might hope that one of them would look in to the thread.

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

I think it's something like this:

Diocese: Krakow _______________Republic Poland
Decanatus (?Arch†-)Deaconry_____________ Palatinate: Krakow
Parochia Parish: Wieprz _________________ District: Wadowice

Testimonium ortus et baptismi Certificate of birth and baptism
Officium parochiale rom.cath. rit. lat. ecclesiae in ### of the church in ~~ Wieprz
praesentibus testatur in libro baptisatorum destinato pro pago Wieprz
tomo book VII, pag. 88, num. ser. 19 sequentia reperiri: the following has been discovered:
Dies nativitatis DoB: 7 / 3 / 1879 id est: dies septima that is*, the seventh day
mensis Martii of the month of March, anno Dni {Domini} millesimo octingentesimo septuagesimo nono AD 1879
Locus nativitatis PoB: Wieprz {about 5 miles due W of Wadwice} nrus domus {Numerus} house number 169**
Dies baptismi nona Martii 1879 DoBap: ninth March 1879
Minister baptismi of Baptism: A R D Andreas Kapl...kiewicz
Religio baptisati rom. cathol. Religion of Baptism: Rom. Cathol.

Nomen baptisati Baptismal name: Antonina
Sexus femin. Sex: feminine
Thorus: Legilim (??) {....... I wondered if this might be a reference to legitimacy}
Parentes (eorum nomen, cognomen, parentes, religio, conditio, aetas) Parents (their name surname, parents, religion, condition, age):
~Jacobus WRONA hort. fil. Johannis WRONA et Reginae natae DZIEDZIC Jacob/James WRONA gardener? s/o John WRONA & Regina, née DZIEDZIC
~ Agnes I. fil. Thomae BIZON hort. et Reginae n. FRAS Agnes I. d/o Thomas BIZON gardener? & Regina née FRAS.
Patrini (eorum nomen, cognomen, religio, conditio, habitatio) Godparents (their name surname, religion, condition, residence):
~ Joannes WRONA #### John WRONA ####
~ Regina ### Francisci KOSRYK Regina ### {wife of?} Francis KOSRYK {could be KOSNYK}
Adnotationes (obstetrix, confirmatio, mutatio status (ordo matrim etc.)) Additional Notes (midwife, ....): Anna CURAL (sp??)

Quas testimoniales manu propria subscribo sigilloque parochiali corroboro.
This certificate I undersign in my own hand and corroborate with the parish seal.
Wieprz 5 Februarii February AD 1931
{a name}

~~~~~~~
†I'm not fully au fait with Roman Catholic Church structures, so could get that sort of thing wrong.
* this actually demonstrates that our expression "i.e." = "id est" = "that is"
** Wieprz - did Napoleon get this far East? Some places operated a system of numbering the houses sequentially as they were built, irrespective of their site in the town/city.

[Uncle John]

You just need to remember that Christian names are "Latinised" so they need to be converted back into the native spelling.

[Prairie Chicken]

Christine, thank you so much! That was far more than I had hoped for!

Uncle John, if I understand you correctly, you mean that Jacob (or whatever that may be in Polish) was called Jacobus in these Latin documents only, and his name was actually Jacob (or the Polish equivalent)?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Jacobus in Latin translates to James in English - but I have no idea what James is in Polish!

OC

[kylejustin]

jacob/james son of john and regina, and agnes dau of thomas and regina. catholic records are filled out in latin, and i have german rellies in poland, their names are spelt in the german. so i think you don't need to worry about the names in polish, as they will be in latin for parish registers....

[Christine in Herts]

When they're R.C. records, they'd look much the same in any country, because they'd all be in Latin. On reflection, the name could well be "Jakob" rather than "Jacob", once it's in Polish. As UJ says, it would be whatever the local version of the name was.

Christine

[Prairie Chicken]

Christine's help was so worthwhile that I'm going to ask for it again.

I've been trying to use her translation, below, and apply it to Antonina's husband, Joannes. You can see his very similar cert here http://www.flickr.com/photos/msprair...en/7165976036/

Most of the boiler plate is the same, or I can figure it out, but I think Joannes parents are:
father - Carolus Plonka, farmer???, son of Mathia (Plonka) and Catharina (nee?) Bogunia
mother - Anna daughter of Fraucisco Komedera and Sophia (nee?) Potepaagric ??? (or perhaps Potepa, and Fraucisco was a farmer?)
godparents - Peulus Plonka, farmer, and Maria ??? Josephi Plonka

Would someone with more Latin or experience than myself please advise if I'm on the right track with Joannes, and also suggest likely anglicized (Polish?) names instead of the Latin used here. Also, does anyone have any idea about the godparents: Is Maria wife of Joseph, or could there be three?

I think it's something like this:

Diocese: Krakow _______________Republic Poland
Decanatus (?Arch†-)Deaconry_____________ Palatinate: Krakow
Parochia Parish: Wieprz _________________ District: Wadowice

Testimonium ortus et baptismi Certificate of birth and baptism
Officium parochiale rom.cath. rit. lat. ecclesiae in ### of the church in ~~ Wieprz
praesentibus testatur in libro baptisatorum destinato pro pago Wieprz
tomo book VII, pag. 88, num. ser. 19 sequentia reperiri: the following has been discovered:
Dies nativitatis DoB: 7 / 3 / 1879 id est: dies septima that is*, the seventh day
mensis Martii of the month of March, anno Dni {Domini} millesimo octingentesimo septuagesimo nono AD 1879
Locus nativitatis PoB: Wieprz {about 5 miles due W of Wadwice} nrus domus {Numerus} house number 169**
Dies baptismi nona Martii 1879 DoBap: ninth March 1879
Minister baptismi of Baptism: A R D Andreas Kapl...kiewicz
Religio baptisati rom. cathol. Religion of Baptism: Rom. Cathol.

Nomen baptisati Baptismal name: Antonina
Sexus femin. Sex: feminine
Thorus: Legilim (??) {....... I wondered if this might be a reference to legitimacy}
Parentes (eorum nomen, cognomen, parentes, religio, conditio, aetas) Parents (their name surname, parents, religion, condition, age):
~Jacobus WRONA hort. fil. Johannis WRONA et Reginae natae DZIEDZIC Jacob/James WRONA gardener? s/o John WRONA & Regina, née DZIEDZIC
~ Agnes I. fil. Thomae BIZON hort. et Reginae n. FRAS Agnes I. d/o Thomas BIZON gardener? & Regina née FRAS.
Patrini (eorum nomen, cognomen, religio, conditio, habitatio) Godparents (their name surname, religion, condition, residence):
~ Joannes WRONA #### John WRONA ####
~ Regina ### Francisci KOSRYK Regina ### {wife of?} Francis KOSRYK {could be KOSNYK}
Adnotationes (obstetrix, confirmatio, mutatio status (ordo matrim etc.)) Additional Notes (midwife, ....): Anna CURAL (sp??)

Quas testimoniales manu propria subscribo sigilloque parochiali corroboro.
This certificate I undersign in my own hand and corroborate with the parish seal.
Wieprz 5 Februarii February AD 1931
{a name}

~~~~~~~
†I'm not fully au fait with Roman Catholic Church structures, so could get that sort of thing wrong.
* this actually demonstrates that our expression "i.e." = "id est" = "that is"
** Wieprz - did Napoleon get this far East? Some places operated a system of numbering the houses sequentially as they were built, irrespective of their site in the town/city.

[Mary from Italy]

I think it's:

Name: Joannes (John/Johann)
father - Carolus (Charles/Karl) Plonka, ag lab, son of Mathia (Matthew/Matthias) Plonka and Catharina (Catherine/Ekaterina) née Bogunia;
mother - Anna (Anne) daughter of Franciscus (Francis/Franz) Komedera and Sophia née Potepa, ag lab;
godparents - Paulus (Paul) Plonka, ag lab, and Maria (Mary) wife of Josephus (Joseph/Josef) Plonka.

Not absolutely sure about the surname Plonka; there's a squiggle above the L which suggests an abbreviation, so it might be Perlonka or something. I think "agr" is more likely to be "ag lab" than farmer, but I'm not absolutely sure (in similar Italian RC records, farmers are usually called "landowners").

[Prairie Chicken]

Thanks for that Mary. Understanding these two certs is a big help. I'd been struggling with them myself for a long time.

[Christine in Herts]

Glad you got the translation without my help. I've been offline for a bit because we had electrical problems (now sorted) at home.

Christine