What happened to margaret wards parents?

[Fuzzy]

Received marriage certiificate yesterday of Margaret Ward and Hugh Rooney. Margarets father is a Peter Ward occupation Stevedore or in plain english a labourer who loaded and unloads ships!

This is the family in 1851 (or at least am pretty sure it is)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=LANHO107_2186_2186-0555&fn=Margaret&ln=Ward&st=r&ssrc=&pid=12946700

Not being absolutely sure, so started with what I was sure of, this is Margaret Ward lodging with future husband on the 1881, as you can see her occupation is Hawker:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=LANRG11_3632_3636-1143&fn=Hugh&ln=Rooney&st=r&ssrc=&pid=8864262

Then in 1871, Margaret is head of house with many of the children I found on the 1851, again her occupation is Hawker

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LANRG10_3796_3798-0520&fn=Margaret&ln=Ward&st=r&ssrc=&pid=27909813

Living with her are also two nieces aged 6 Mary A Kilduff & Mary J Kilduff, who do they belong to? thought may be oldest sister Mary Ward?

Cannot find her father Peter or mother Ann on the 1861, or it would seem any of the children.

This side Rooney/Ward of my husbands family seems has been struck over and over again by terrible hardship, I am wondering why aged just 21 Catherine is head of house, especially as she has two older sisters living with her?

Anyway I suppose what I am asking you kind folks, is can you confirm my finding ie the right Margaret Ward, parents/siblings and where are they all in 1861? There are loads of margaret wards born circa 1850 but because these are catholics I have already found a baptism for a margaret ward wiith parents peter ward and ann carey..............gosh I love these catholic families!!!

many thanks

[Elaine ..Spain]

Cannot find her father Peter or mother Ann on the 1861, or it would seem any of the children.

What about this one?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1861&indiv=try&h=23083690

RG 9; Piece: 2697; Folio: 24; Page: 51;

[Elaine ..Spain]

A possibility for Ann in 1881 census
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...968447&recoff=
RG11; Piece: 3652; Folio: 81; Page: 10

[Fuzzy]

Elaine, you absolute star! Why couldn't I find that?!!! I know Peter had died by 1888 when Margaret gets married.

Why is Margaret head of house on the 1871? cannot understand it? I thought that both parents must have died, would not her mum have been living with her and the children on the 1871 you think Elaine? I hate to think of people being paupers in the workhouse!! (soft I know)

just found all the children baptisms and because they are catholic ones it lists not only the mothers maiden name (Carey) but also godparents!! also gives the date of birth on every one I have found so far!!

[Elaine ..Spain]

Possible burial for Anne

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2183&iid=engl56170_282-for-1-4_m_00295&fn=Anne&ln=Ward&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1093830

Ford Cemetery 1883

[Fuzzy]

must be going goggled eyed as just put in all info again and 1861 census came up..............goodness knows what i was doing, think have been doing too much in front of the computer today!!

[Elaine ..Spain]

Why is Margaret head of house on the 1871? cannot understand it? I thought that both parents must have died, would not her mum have been living with her and the children on the 1871 you think Elaine? I hate to think of people being paupers in the workhouse!! (soft I know)

I can't see the mother in 1871 - there is an Ann Ward of about the right age - http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...848305&recoff=
- but it says sister to John Ward and unmarried which doesn't really fit.
I know what you mean about finding people in the workhouse!

[Fuzzy]

Possible burial for Anne

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2183&iid=engl56170_282-for-1-4_m_00295&fn=Anne&ln=Ward&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1093830

Ford Cemetery 1883

Oh god that certainly look like her Elaine, that is so so sad............Why didn't she move in with her children?? Thanks so much Elaine. Just have to solve the kilduff children now!!

[Fuzzy]

Cross posted again! I know elaine, it is awful isn't it. I couldn't find Anne on the 1871, which is why I assumed she had died already, especially as she wasn't with the children..............I really must STOP assuming things. In my defence am bit rusty!!

[Elaine ..Spain]

Could this be a burial for Peter (right hand page about half way down) - again Ford Cemetery (1863)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2183&iid=engl56170_282-for-1-1_m_00136&fn=Peter&ln=Ward&st=r&ssrc=&pid=1150845

- not sure if the address matches with anything you have got?

[Fuzzy]

Doesn't match the address i jotted down from the 1861, but they could have moved on. Seems very likely elaine, as he not on the 1871 and would explain the childrens dire straits in 1871 with Catherine head of house aged 21 and peddling the streets selling matches etc. Still cannot understand why mum not with them. that is the trouble with this tree building lark, you can find the facts (with help from your friends) but you will know the reason why for some of the circumstances!

Thanks alot elaine, really appreciate your help

[Fuzzy]

Just found marriage for Peter Ward and Nancy Carey (googled and Nancy a variation of Ann) same parish St Patricks as all the childrens baptisms.........bumbumbum 18 October 1837
No certificate for that then !

[Elaine ..Spain]

18 October 1837
No certificate for that then !

This one ..
Marriages Dec 1837
Carey Nancy
WARD Peter
West Derby 20 664

[LangleyValeSue]

Just found marriage for Peter Ward and Nancy Carey (googled and Nancy a variation of Ann) same parish St Patricks as all the childrens baptisms.........bumbumbum 18 October 1837
No certificate for that then !

Oh yes there is!
Dec qtr 1837 West Derby. Vol 20 page 664

[LangleyValeSue]

Not quick enough again! :(

[Frazzled]

Hi Fuzzy

Found this on the birth reg Mary Ann Kilduff 1864 8b 164 Liverpool

[Frazzled]

In 1881 she is with her large family in Warrington
121 Winwick Street, Warrington
Piece 3797 Folio 103 Page 33
Father is William b1840 Salford and he is a puddler (iron)
Mother Mary b1841 Manchester

Mary is there aged 16 but there are no other children the same age so think the 2 Mary's on the 1871 must be the same person put down twice.

Is Mary a sister of Margaret?

Edit - really should read thread properly you are already asking if Mary is Margaret's sister, will look for a marriage

[Frazzled]

Now have followed the Kilduff family and just to confuse matters William changes to James. I can find no marriage between a William or James Kilduff to a Mary Ward but that doesn't mean there isn't one! I have found a marriage of a James Killduff (spelt with ll) to either a Mary ann Davis or Mary Edmonds in 1859 in Chorlton Lancs.

[Frazzled]

Think I have found a connection
Martin Kilduff married Mary Ward 1861 Q4 8b 290 Liverpool, Lanc. Have checked that the other couple for this reg did indeed marry. Sadly there is as death for Mary Kilduff in 1866 Q1 8e 244 Blackburn, Lanc aged 27.

In 1861 Peter Ward (Mary's father) and James Kilfuff (Martin's father) are both Dock labourers and they both live in Toxteth Park with their families.

[Fuzzy]

Good morning guys, thanks so much!! Do you know what, I was having another of my blonde moments! I am thinking marriage was year before registration started!! I definately overdid the research yesterday (spent 8 hours on the computer!) Will make a note of ref and send off for it!!

Hey Frazzled, thanks so so so much for that info on Mary Ward, that is so kind of you. I started to look into her just before tea and had her on my to do list! OMG that is so sad re Mary!! this family seem to attract misfortune. Elaine found her mother dying in the workhouse and her father was only 46 when he died. I couldn't believe it when i found Margaret as head of house aged just 21 and occupation hawker. when I think of the life my eldest son leads! They don't know how easy they have it!!

Thanks again to everyone