Sus marriage in South Australia

[jood]

I say "sus" for the following reason. I cannot find any proof of a birth, death for a Mathew Molony (born abt 1867) who apparently married Ellen Untina (Utinaya) Burgess on 19 March 1893 in Presbyterian Church Port Augusta.

My actual relative is Ellen Utina Heaven, born 17 Feb 1855 in Barton St Mary, Glos. UK. She married William Charles Burgess on 9 September 1875 in Church of St James, Glos, Eng. They come out to Adelaide, and William dies on 8 August 1891 aged 39 at Mt. Brown, South Australia.

----- gap here -----

Ellen apparently marries a Mr Charles Graham (somewhere, sometime) - and ends up in Perth, West Australia, where she died in the public Hospital Perth (as Mrs Graham) on 31 May 1934, and is buried in Karrakatta cemetery.

My question is this - why can't I find any information about Mathew Molony - as to if he died, they divorced or what, and were and when did she marry Charles Graham.

I'm wondering if it is an error in the BD&M files? Although her death cert is hard to read, I can't see that she married the 2nd guy (Molony) - unless I am not reading it right. There appears to be a gap. I have actually seen the marriage date on line (tho I don't have a copy of it now due to that source not being readable on Win 7)
Molony-Burgess marriage.jpg
Later: went to old computer and was able to copy the source:

[kylejustin]

i can't read those images....and maybe the indexes don't have the years you want. or the events were in a different state.

[jood]

Is that better?

It just seems strange Ellen marries one guy - no-one's heard of him, and ends up with another guy with no deaths or marriage to confirm - I'm talking about West Oz & South Oz

[dicole]

It does look like the same woman, but the groom's age is 10 years younger, so maybe the marriage did not last.

One difficulty with the name MOLONY is there is so many variations. Can you find a death for Charles Graham ?

Have you seen Ellen's death notices in the WA papers ? No mention of husband Charles, or late husband Charles, only her children and grandchildren. Maybe she made up Mr Graham when she moved to WA ?

She wrote a letter to the Editor in Sep 1898 and signed herself Ellen U Graham, so that narrows down the time frame a bit.

I think I would be chasing up every reference to Ellen and her children in the Trove database to narrow down the time frame for her loss of Mr Molony and acquiring Mr Graham.

Oohh - here's another little tit-bit of her life !! who was Mr Rintoul ?????

The West Australian Saturday 18 December 1920

RINTOUL.- In cherished remembrance of James Rintoul, my dear friend and companion for many years, who passed away at Albert-street, Claremont, December 18, 1919. Oh for the touch of a vanished hand, And the sound of a voice, that is still. Inserted by Ellen U. Graham


Di

[dicole]

I've been trawling Trove a bit more this is the report of William Burgess' death and funeral

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/arti...chTerm=william burgess&searchLimits=l-title=34|||l-decade=189|||l-year=1891|||l-month=08

[caddie51]

Hello "Jood",
There are online queries regarding to Ellen dating back to 1997; regarding this marriage date back to 2009.
Have you purchased the SOUTH AUSTRALIAN marriage certificate for Ellen?
The marriage certificate should state the persons' birth details, occupations, witnesses to the marriage, given Ellen's personal details on the marriage entry it does not appear to be "suspect".

You can order the marriage certificate online http://www.genealogysa.org.au
The informant of Ellen's death appears to have her details incorrect.
Her age stated as being "about 79 years" and states she had been in WESTERN AUSTRALIA for 60 years, so arriving about 1874.
It is possible the informant was not aware of her previous marriages.
There is no 1911 death for a James RUNTOUL, there is a 1919 death on BD&MS
1916 electoral roll has James RINTOUL of Albert Street, CLAREMONT recorded as a Business Manager.
James RINTOUL may have been Ellen's business manager, 1909 newspaper reports have Ellen being a boarding-house keeper applying for a lodging house licence for her boarding house "KINCORA".
In 1898 she writes to a newspaper (The WESTERN AUSTRALIAN) complaining about a boarder / traveller Mr WHEATLEY wanting alcohol, signing herself as Ellen U. GRAHAM
In 1906 she writes to a newspaper regarding tomatoes having been thrown at a train she was travelling on, signing herself as Ellen U. GRAHAM
1910 electoral roll has Ellen at "KINCORA", Bayview Terrace, recorded as a widow.
An Ellen GRAHAM appears on the 1903 and 1906 electoral rolls at BUCKLAND HILL, as Ellen Minnie GRAHAM with a Charles GRAHAM, a miner.
Taking into consideration the letter written 1898 to the newspaper Ellen appears to possibly have already "owned" a boarding house in 1898 so not likely to have been the lady at BUCKLAND HILL with Charles GRAHAM; a miner by occupation.
There may not be a GRAHAM marriage for Ellen, between her 1893 marriage to Mathew MOLONEY and her 1898 complaint written to The WESTERN AUSTRALIAN she has the surname GRAHAM, searching AUSTRALIAN marriages there does not appear to have been a third marriage.
If the family travelled to WESTERN AUSTRALIA by ship and you are unsure of Ellen's surname you could try searching passenger lists for the children's names.

1893	174/978	MOLONY	Mathew	BURGESS	Ellen Utanaya	Frome	More info...

(SOURCE: http://www.genealogysa.org.au)

[jood]

Caddie - I've written out a whole heap of stuff here - maybe it's not relevant. I have made enquiries about getting the transcript of the mystery wedding. I really do appreciate the trouble you have taken.

Really what I'd like to know is how to find the shipping records for Adelaide-Fremantle/Albany.


Ellen’s death certificate shows she died 31 May 1934 aged about 79 years – parents unknown (tho I do know of her parents back in England) The age is correct

She was buried in Anglican Cemetery, Karrakatta 2nd June 1934 (a minister in attendance) (correct)

It says she was born in England, and was in WA for 60 years. (not quite accurate, she arrived in SA with William arriving in Adelaide on 24 December 1875. William died in 1891 – so she was in South Australia a minimum of 16 years at least. Her two oldest sons went to Perth to earn money to send home. I have no record of a ship taking her to Fremantle at this stage (never looked, actually), but I know she settled in Claremont, and I realise she did have a boarding house. All her children bar two came to West Australia.

Then it says 1st marriage (19 years) to William Burgess

2nd marriage in WA Unknown to Charles Graham.

The children are listed and correct.

Her last Will & Testament says (partly) that she wants her creditors to hold her property situated in monument Street, Buckland Hill, Western Australia until such time as the present depression lifts and a reasonable price can be obtained for it.
My funeral expenses to be paid out of my insurance money and to be of the plainest possible kind or description, no flowers, wreaths or carriages to be used. (that explains why she has a plain grave, I realise now) It is signed by her, and the correct spelling is UTANAYA. My grandfather was mentioned also in the Will, so I know it's the right person.

So I still don’t know if she was Mrs Graham when she arrived in WA, and I still don’t know what happened to Mathew Molony.

I have now found that James Rintoul IS buried at Karrakatta on the correct date in 1919 – they spelt his name RINTOUE.

Buckland Hill was mentioned in her Will, so she was definitely married (or rather was Mrs Graham) when the Will was made out in 1931 and she is one and the same person

Do you have the shipping sites for Adelaide to Fremantle (or Albany) where I could look up the children – tho they may have been adults by then. I have narrowed down the time she may have arrived in WA as between 1893 when she “married” Molony and 1898 when she writes to the newspaper in WA. Her youngest child would have been 4 in 1893 (in fact my grandfather would have only been 16 when he and his brother arrived in 1896. The children who did go to WA were all married in the early 1900’s in WA. So in actual fact, Ellen would only have spent about 36 years in WA (not that it’s relevant).

You’ve done a fantastic job. I will try for the marriage certificate to Moloney. At least get that confirmed.

[kylejustin]

order the marriage cert from here:

https://sphere.ocba.sa.gov.au/cgi-bin/fccgi.exe?w3exec=PrepApplic&w3ServerPool=bdmsa

unfortunately, what is in the index concerning south australian certs is what you get.....the only extra not in the index is the witnesses, but they record witnesses addresses and occupations........they only ask father's name up to a certain point. no occupation and no mothers.

[kylejustin]

she may not have married mr graham, she and mr moloney may have separated and she had a common law marriage with mr graham.

[jood]

Possibly - (re common in law marriage) which makes it more difficult as I still dont know where this Graham guy was born or died.

But thank you anyway.

I think I had made enquiries about the transcript, but will now apply for the real thing.

[caddie51]

Hello "Jood",
I had done a bit of research into Ellen and I have no doubt you have the correct lady.
I did not find an arrival in SOUTH AUSTRALIA for Mathew MOLONY (or variants of the name) to 1885, of course he simply may have not been recorded on the index I have to hand; the index I have pretty much recorded folk who remained in SOUTH AUSTRALIA for at least some period of time.
There would have to be a divorce or death for Ellen to re-marry, there is no death for Mathew in SOUTH AUSTRALIA to close of index in 1972.
There were quite a few Mathew MOLONYs (of variant spellings) in WESTERN AUSTRALIA around the time you are looking at, one recorded in the 1895
WESTERN AUSTRALIAN Police Gazette apprehended for vagrancy and recorded later in discharge of prisoners. Some of those I had been able to trace to TASMANIA, VICTORIA etc.
With Ellen's sons working and sending money back to her it sounds as though perhaps Mathew MOLONY was no longer on the scene.
Ellen's boys arrived in WESTERN AUSTRALIA 1896, if Ellen was still in SOUTH AUSTRALIA, you have narrowed your time frame again, she writes to the newspaper 1898 therefore gives you a window of about two years.

I have done wildcard marriage searches in SOUTH AUSTRALIA and WESTERN AUSTRALIA and not had any success; the WESTERN AUSTRALIAN marriage index I have does close off at 1905.
Charles GRAHAM at Keane Steet BUCKLAND HILL 1903 and 1906 was recorded as being a miner, there may be a death for Charles but just not in WESTERN AUSTRALIA.
Many of the miners moved around, many from SOUTH AUSTRALIA moved about from WESTERN AUSTRALIA to BROKEN HILL etc.
Possibly worth noting is that there may have been a mining accident, without a body a death cannot be recorded.
The only passenger index I have for WESTERN AUSTRALIA does not cover the time period you are looking at.
Your local family history centre or library may have, or be able to obtain, the appropriate shipping records you are after, I understand the WESTERN AUSTRALIAN Genealogical Society holds interstate shipping arrivals to ALBANY 1873 to 1924.

[jood]

Thanks again Caddie. Strange about the "marriage" to Mathew Molony. Do you think it's worth me getting the transcript or certificate of same? What would it prove?

Charles GRAHAM at Keane Steet BUCKLAND HILL 1903 and 1906 was recorded as being a miner, there may be a death for Charles but just not in WESTERN AUSTRALIA.

interesting that Ellen Graham owned property at Monument Street, Buckland Hill, mentioned in her will of 1931

In 1896 with his brother Frederick Charles (a blacksmith), James sailed to W.A in the "Bulimba" to look for work (he would have been 16 and his older brother 18) And she (Ellen) appears in WA as early as 1898. I guess it's a matter of finding that shipping record (I'll make enquiries).

I still wonder tho, if the wrong marriage name was picked up when it was transcribed - should have been Charles Graham and not Mathew Molony. I'll also check NSW and see if Charles landed up there.

You've done a heck of a lot of research for me - and I do appreciate it. I am currently trying to help someone else with a nightmare of changed surnames (at will) lol. Fun, isn't it? lol

[caddie51]

Hello Jood,
It is up to you and depends on what you could afford.
I always obtain the certificate as I have seen transcripts where the transcriber was unable to decipher words.
With the certificate if you are unable to decipher a word there may be another person who can decipher it.
I suspect the names on the SOUTH AUSTRALIAN marriage are probably the names "given", Mathew and Charles may have been one and the same person, perhaps there was a reason for the name change.
Police gazettes in each State often recorded the names of persons wanted in another State and the reason they were wanted.
It sounds as though Ellen did well for herself, she must have been a good business woman.

I did some research into a fellow who left ENGLAND at a very young age, arrived in SOUTH AUSTRALIA under his own name but turned up in WESTERN AUSTRALIA where he married and lived under a very different name.
Newspaper reports about him later in his life revealed who he really was but he did not give a reason why he had changed his name.
My great grandmother went AWOL, recorded as being dead on her Mother's death certificate but many years after she went AWOL my great grandfather had to go to court to obtain permission to re-marry.
I suspect our ancestors are "upstairs" laughing at us.

[jood]

I'm sure they are laughing at us Caddie - but I'm laughing too at some of the things I found out - I'm sure they didn't expect us to discover their little foibles !!!

Perhaps I'll go for the real cert, tho I have asked them (at their office) to check if it wasn't Charles and not Mathew. It's the 2nd time I have written - they didn't acknowledge me the first time. They can't possibly be right every time. I mean - Moloney is not even mentioned on her death certificate - surely the family would have known. Meanwhile I will ply away with the ship arrivals and departures and see if I can track Ellen down when she arrived in WA and under what surname.