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Theories on relativity ?

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  • Theories on relativity ?

    The 1841 census shows my gtx3 grandfather, Sunderland Murgatroyd, living in a household of Murgatroyds, but I am struggling to establish his relationship to them. I know the relationships of all the other Murgatroyds in the household, so I have listed them.

    My apologies for the long post, but I have included a lot of information here to avoid adding it bit by bit on follow-on posts.

    1841 Census Address: Lane Ends, Keighley, Yorkshire
    James Murgatroyd, Aged 60, Blacksmith, born Yorkshire, (Head)
    Pheby Murgatroyd, Aged 70, born Yorkshire, (Wife)
    Pickles Murgatroyd, Aged 20, Blacksmith, born Yorkshire, (Son)
    Sarah Murgatroyd, Aged 20, born Yorkshire, (Pickles’ wife)
    Margaret Murgatroyd, Aged 2 months, born Yorkshire, (Pickles & Sarah’s daughter)
    Sunderland Murgatroyd, Aged 10, born Yorkshire, (related how ?)
    Wilkinson Murgatroyd, Aged 5, Blacksmith (!), (Grandson, son of Thomas Murgatroyd)

    Sunderland has no father named on his marriage certificate or his baptism, but his mother is named as Sarah Murgatroyd (but clearly not Pickles’ wife, Sarah), so it seems likely that his mother was a) unmarried and b) related to James and Phebe Murgatroyd.

    There are records of James and Phebe having nine children baptised – all at St Michael & All Angels, Haworth:
    4-Dec-1798, Robert, then 29 months later,
    12-May-1801, William, then 24 months later,
    2-May-1803, Betty, then 24 months later,
    1-May-1805, Sally, then 26 months later,
    10-July-1807, John, then 28 months later,
    1-Nov-1809, James, then 29 months later,
    9-Apr-1812, Thomas, then 41 months later,
    26-Sep-1815, Pighills (/ Pickles ?) then 39 months later,
    6-Jan-1819, Nancy

    According to his baptism record, Sunderland was born 11-Feb-1826, which suggests that Sarah, his mother, was born before 1812. (Incidentally, Sunderland was baptised by Patrick Bronte, father of the Bronte sisters).

    By good fortune, when I was looking at the certificate for Pickles Murgatroyd’s marriage to Sarah Wilson (9-Jul-1838), I spotted that Sarah Murgatroyd was married to John Staincliff on the same day. The marriage certificate for Sarah Murgatroyd shows her living at Lane Ends, her father as James Murgatroyd, Blacksmith, and John Staincliff as a blacksmith living at Lane Ends. Sarah appears in the 1841~1881 censuses, but inconsistencies in her age indicate a date of birth possibly anywhere between 1804~1816, but probably around 1811 or slightly earlier. This ties in with Sunderland’s 1826 birth, putting Sarah about 15~19.

    But the problem is that James and Phebe don’t have an obvious gap for Sarah in their recorded production line ! Perhaps she was born in early 1811, between James and Thomas, but I have been through the St Michael & All Angels baptism registry line by line without success.
    Or was Sarah baptised as Sally, but used the name Sarah ? The baptism register quite clearly says Sally, and the previous entry is a Sarah Sharp, with the Sarah equally clear, so it is not a mistranscription. (The only records I can find for Sally Murgatroyd are her birth and the deaths of two Sally Murgatroyds in 1844 (Bradford) and 1847 (Keighley). Perhaps I should get these death certificates, starting with the Keighley one, to try to rule out Sally using the name Sarah ?

    Before finding Sarah’s marriage and census entries, I checked to see if Phebe had borne Sarah before her marriage to James, with Sarah’s surname subsequently changed to Murgatroyd. However, it appears that Phebe was previously married to John Barker (probably married 12-Aug-1793 in Bradford), and had a daughter Mally (baptised at St Michael & All Angels, Haworth). Two John Barkers are listed as baptised in Haworth in 1770 and 1771, both with the father’s name Thomas, and there is a burial for a John Barker, son of Thomas Barker, on 16-Feb-1797 in Bradford, one year before Phebe married James Murgatroyd.
    The interesting point from this is that the Phebe who married John Barker had the maiden name Sunderland. This suggests that Sarah Murgatroyd had an illegitimate son and named him after her mother, Phebe’s, maiden name. I just wish I could find more concrete proof.

    Most of the records suggest that Sunderland’s mother was daughter to James and Phebe (especially the marriage certificate listing Sarah as James’ daughter) but I can’t find any evidence of Sarah’s birth. Could Sarah have been James’ niece, and he brought her up as his daughter ? (There is a Sarah, daughter of Sarah Murgatroyd, Spinster, at nearby Bingley in 1808, but I know nothing about James’s siblings or parents).

    Any thoughts or help to find out more ?
    Yorkshire names: Brown, Weighell, Hudson, Hartley, Womersley, Laycock, Maude, Atkinson, Whittaker, Hammond, Hutton, Brook, Murgatroyd, Wright, Topham
    Warwickshire name: Hart
    German names: Peltz, Eichborn

  • #2
    A quick think says Sally was recorded as Sarah at the baptism of her son Sunderland because the vicar ASSUMED that the name Sally was a diminuitive of Sarah. She would be most unlikely to correct him.

    OC

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    • #3
      I'd like that to be the case, as it would solve the question.
      But the 1938 wedding shows Sarah Murgatroyd, as does Sunderland's baptism, and the two rites were performed by different clergymen.
      Maybe Sally preferred to use the name Sarah - I should send for the death certificate for Sally Murgatroyd in Keighley (1847) as this may rule out Sally and Sarah being the same person.
      Yorkshire names: Brown, Weighell, Hudson, Hartley, Womersley, Laycock, Maude, Atkinson, Whittaker, Hammond, Hutton, Brook, Murgatroyd, Wright, Topham
      Warwickshire name: Hart
      German names: Peltz, Eichborn

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      • #4
        It may be worth checking to see if there is a gap in the church records around 1810-11

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        • #5
          my 2nd great grandmother was sarah jane, and known in the family as sally, so i don't doubt sally and sarah are the same person. either that scenario, or she is a sister of james, but that does not explain naming her child sunderland, especially if james' wife was a sunderland.

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          • #6
            If Yorkshire families were anything like my Lancashire families at the time, it is quite likely the Murgatroyd and Sunderland families were related before this marriage anyway and she called her child Sunderland because of that connection. It is also possible that a Sunderland was the natural father I suppose.

            OC

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            • #7
              I would agree that Sally is the diminutive of Sarah and interchangeable in usage - Sally at home and Sarah for official purposes, bearing in mind a baptism is for welcoming to the church and not 'official' in quite the sense we now know it.
              Margaret

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