General penitentiary & workhouse

[Guest]

I have tried to find out but does anyone know if a general penitentiary would be the same as a workhouse in 1841?

One of my rellies seems to be in a gen. pen where I've noticed there are families also - I wasn't sure if this was a level of workhouse?
The goveneror seems to be the Chaplain as well.

Thank you

Amanda

[herky]

Hi Amanda,
Do you have a county/area etc for this - is it in the UK or overseas.
I always think of Penitentiary as prisons in the US - but of course different countries use different names.
I have just noticed the date - perhaps I am wrong but perhaps the name is because it is so early and before the Victorian workhouses - just done a google and I am speaking rubbish - the term workhouse was used in the 1600's.
Anyway - if you could give an idea of the area then that would be a big help.

[Guest]

There is absolutely no detail of where it is on the image which I went back to page 1 of, to see if it held any clues.

I have yet to find his birth details but for him to be 40 in 1841 I think his birth date is about 1801, in Worth in Sussex. And I have his profession on a marriage cert as Miller which is also on the Penitentiary image. Wherever the pen is, aparently according to one info column, he was not born in that county - this I also take to mean it's in England for the word county and not state.


His son was born around 1826-8 in Greenwich Register Office.

Sorry not info available - I'll have another go at research, I don't know where I may be able to find out about prison records.

Thanks, Herky.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Can you give us a link to the census image. You may be able to find out more about the address via the "description of the enumeration district".

[keldon]

Millbank Prison was described as a general penitentiary, not only National as described in this Wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millbank_Prison

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YM0DAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA47&dq=general+penitentiary+millbank&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IACDT-nJD8ix0QWvpIjrBg&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=general%20penitentiary%20millbank&f=false

Edit
Is this the page you were looking at? If so it is Millbank. Was it James Ley on this page?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=MDXHO107_737_738-0466&fn=James&ln=Ley&st=d&ssrc=&pid=8184914

At this time there were quite a few Charterists in there. Could be quite interesting.

[Guest]

I copied this from the 1841 census on Ancestry:

Detail: Class: HO107; Piece 737; Book: 21; Civil Parish: St John The Evangelist; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: General Penitentiary; Folio: 15; Page: 11;



So it's London. Keldon, could it be Millbank? I'm happy to research this, anyone know how I can find the prisons around this area? Just google?

[Elaine ..Spain]

If you get the image on Ancestry, you will see just above the image are the words:

Middlesex > St John The Evangelist > St John The Evangelist > District General Penitentiary > 6
Click on the words District General Penitentiary - and in the box which pops up scroll down in the listing of ENUMERATION DISTRICT - until you find DISTRICT GENERAL PENITENTIARY. Then click on View Desciption of enumeration district
You will then see that it is General Penitentiary, Millbank.

Have you found his name in the Criminal Registers on Ancestry? http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1590
Have you looked in any newspapers for information of the case?

[Guest]

Thanks Elaine, I'll check out those Ancestry registers.

[Guest]

Many thanks for the help with finding out more details on the Ancestry site Elaine, it is indeed Millbank - thanks Keldon too!

Again, I'm a real novice Elaine, so I don't really know where to look for newspaper evidence - I'll have a google, unless you have some more precious info?

[Elaine ..Spain]

There are various newspapers which you may be able to access freely on line, amngst them the Times Digital Archives, 17th & 18th Century Burney Collection and the 19th Century British Newspaper Collection.
You do this via your local library.
Look on the internet at your county library website - does it offer any Online Reference Library service. If it does all you need to do is login using the PIN number on your library card - from the comfort of your own home!

There is also the British Newspaper Archive website - http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/ - which is a subscription site, and although fairly expensive for an annual subscription you can purchase a 2 or 7 day package which is only a few pounds.

I did have a very quick look in the 19th Century British Newspaper collection for your man and couldn't see anything, but it was only a quick look!

Newspapers are a great resource so worth checking your local library website to see what they offer, even if it doesn't help with this particular query.