Not sure whether I've got the right family! Help please.

[Holly]

Having been unable to find a definate Birth for my Grandfather, William James Wilson, born 1860/61 in Manchester, Lancs...I've been trying to find his father, (William Wilson) instead.

The problem is that there are so many William Wilsons!!!

On William James Wilson's Marriage Cert, (In Swansea, June 1893) he gives his father as 'William Wilson, (Deceased) Occupation: Mason'.

I have therefore searched for a William Wilson, Occupation Mason, who died before 1893.

I've found a William Wilson, baptised on the 7th May 1820 in the Parish of St Giles, Pontefract, Yorkshire. Father, James Wilson, Occupation: Stonemason.

On the 1841 Census, Piece 1309, Book 1, Folio 25, page 11, William Wilson, 20yrs is a StoneMason.
On the 1851Census, Piece 2331, Folio 16, page 24, William Wilson is married to Frances and they have several children.
On the 1861 Census William Wilson is a surgical in-patient in Manchester Infirmary, but I can't find Frances Wilson and children.
On the 1881 Census William Wilson appears to be in Pontefract Workhouse.

What I am trying to ascertain is whether William and Frances Wilson had a child called William James Wilson in 1860/61. If they did, - then I might have been able to find my Grandfather's family.
However...it could well be that I am looking at the wrong family:-(

Any help welcomed!
Holly.

[margaretmarch]

What about 1871 census? did you look on that and find nothing?

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

The family you found in 1851 with William and Frances are here in 1861 RG 9; Piece: 3440; Folio: 17; Page: 2 so I don't think the William you found in hospital is the same man.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

I was looking on Lancs BMD for a birth for William James but nothing is coming up and on ancestry BMD index there are no Manchester born William James so I wonder if his place of birth is not correct.

Margaret

[Holly]

I was looking on Lancs BMD for a birth for William James but nothing is coming up and on ancestry BMD index there are no Manchester born William James so I wonder if his place of birth is not correct.
Margaret

Many Thanks for looking Margaret.

My head is spinning with William Wilsons, - there are so many of them!

I have looked at the Lancs Birth too, and there is a William James Wilson on there, - born in Preston, mother's maiden name Nesbit. However, the father is a Thomas Wilson, soldier, so I've discounted that one.

The reason that I was looking at the sugical in-patient is that he was the only William Wilson, Occupation Mason, on the 1861.

I have William James Wilson (my Grandfather) marrying in Swansea in 1893 and then on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses for Swansea. The family moved to Wembley, Middx in 1932, - I have him on the Electoral Rolls there until his Death in Hendon, Middx in December 1937. I've found his Burial, but I can find no definate trace of him before Swansea in June 1893.

Its extremely frustrating...
Holly:-(

[Holly]

I also meant to add that on both the 1901 and 1911 Censuses, he gives his place of birth as: 'Manchester, Lancs.'

Holly.

[margaretmarch]

Yes, I can imagine - just this short time of searching has got my head spinning with Wilson!!

Can you give me the ref for the William in hospital and I'll have a look.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

I also meant to add that on both the 1901 and 1911 Censuses, he gives his place of birth as: 'Manchester, Lancs.'

Holly.

Yes, I know but the registration districts are more specific than that giving Chorlton etc so it's hard to find one that will fit. I expect he said Manchester as that was easier for enumerators to grasp.
Margaret

[Holly]

Yes, I can imagine - just this short time of searching has got my head spinning with Wilson!!
Can you give me the ref for the William in hospital and I'll have a look.
Margaret

On the 1861 Census, this William Wilson is a Surgical In-Patient at the Manchester Royal Infirmary.
It's on Piece 2954, Folio 33, Page 11.

Holly.

[margaretmarch]

Just a thought who are the witnesses to the marriage?

Margaret

[Holly]

Just a thought who are the witnesses to the marriage?
Margaret

Evan Rees, (Bride's Father) and Selina Rees, (Bride's Sister)!!!
Holly.

[margaretmarch]

Looking at the 1861 for William in hospital it says 'widowed' age 41 born Ackworth.

I'll see if I can see him before or after.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Evan Rees, (Bride's Father) and Selina Rees, (Bride's Sister)!!!
Holly.

No help there then.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

BTW are you the person who has put a comment on the ancestry 1911 transcript?

Margaret

[Holly]

No help there then.
Margaret

It seems very strange that after 1893 he's so easy to find, - but before that doesn't seem to exist...:-(
Holly:-(

[Holly]

BTW are you the person who has put a comment on the ancestry 1911 transcript?
Margaret

Yes, - guilty! (I get so frustrated at those mistranscriptions on that Site).

[margaretmarch]

Well I've looked for the William in hospital before 1861 and he can't be found either!!

It is possible your William James did not know for sure where he was born and has given an approximate location perhaps where he was living as a child.

I'm having to go off and do some unpacking just now as have just got back from 4 months away! but I'll be back later and see what I can suggest.
Margaret

[Holly]

Many Thanks for your help Margaret, - much appreciated!
Best Wishes, Holly.

[margaretmarch]

Here's a possible for your William James in 1881 RG11; Piece: 1789; Folio: 82; Page: 31 in a Military Camp Colchester. Just thought the only real way to get back on this line is to find William J as far back as possible.

It might be worth asking on a Military forum what regiment it is likely to be and if any records can be had of the soldiers - muster rolls and the like which might give more of a clue as to parents/last addresses etc.

I know it's most likely clutching at straws but I do believe the key is to find out more about William James rather than try to find his father from the very little that you know.

Margaret

[Holly]

Here's a possible for your William James in 1881 RG11; Piece: 1789; Folio: 82; Page: 31 in a Military Camp Colchester. Just thought the only real way to get back on this line is to find William J as far back as possible.
It might be worth asking on a Military forum what regiment it is likely to be and if any records can be had of the soldiers - muster rolls and the like which might give more of a clue as to parents/last addresses etc.
I know it's most likely clutching at straws but I do believe the key is to find out more about William James rather than try to find his father from the very little that you know.
Margaret

Hi Margaret,

There were two possible matches on the 1881, the one that you mention and the one moored off Cornwall for the Census, (at Mylor I think it was). Anyway, via Military Forums and the National Archives Site, I downloaded lots of records, - but none of them fitted:-(

The Colchester one was still in the services in 1901, when I can see my William James Wilson in Swansea, and the other one, (in the RLMI) turned out to have been born in Kent, and was much older.

I still think that the William James Wilson (1860-1937) that I am looking for, probably did spend time in The Merchant Navy. This is because of his six sons, five of them spent time in the Merchant and Royal Navy, and also because his eldest son, William Havelock Wilson, (1894-1974) was I think, named both for his father, and for Joseph Havelock Wilson, who was the Leader of The Seaman's Union in Swansea in 1894.

However, I am still unable to find my Grandfather before 1893:-(((
Holly.