New on FMP today

[Loopy Linda in La La Land]

Westminster Parish records

Happy Hunting

Linda

[Harrys mum]

Went to search and keep getting results from Cambridgeshire. Maybe they are tweaking. I hope they've realised they forgot the Turner and Haylock families and they are just popping them on now...lol

[kylejustin]

oh really?! ok, breathe......slowly.....aha can't do it!! * races off excitedly *

[Koromo]

Greetings

I can see two marriages on the FMP indexes which pertain to my family lines, and I would dearly love to know if there are any further details.

Pladwell (should be Bladwell) PEYTON and Mary PROBERT's marriage in 1712 at St Clement Danes, London — does it say if Mary is of somewhere?

There are transcripts for the marriage of Jacques GRONOUS and Anne BODHAM in 1701 at Westminster (Spring Gardens, Huguenot) which I find a bit confusing. Is it for the marriage or the licence/bond? I've been looking for the marriage of James GRONOUS and Anna BODHAM for some years and with such unusual surnames, this surely has to be the one … but they were not Huguenot, and that church was not built until 1709.

It is brilliant that these early registers are coming online, but frustrating when London is split across Ancestry's LMA records (which I have) and FMP's Westminster records.

Many thanks
Koromo

[Loopy Linda in La La Land]

Hi Koromo

Here is the transcript for the wedding

Groom's First names:Pladwell
Groom's surname:Peyton
Groom's parish:St Paul Covent Garden
Groom's Age:
Marriage year:1712
Marriage month:Feb Feb, Don't know why that frowny face is
Marriage day:21
Parish:St Clement Danes therr!!!!
County:Middlesex
Bride's First names:Mary
Bride's surname:Probert
Bride's parish:St Clements Danes
Bride's Age:

Just off to have another look

Linda

[Loopy Linda in La La Land]

Sorry nothing else at present. Off out now but I'll have another look later today

Linda

[Koromo]

Linda, thank you so much. It's really good to have that marriage confirmed, and the date too. I can now delete the question marks I've had next to their names.

[kylejustin]

been very dissapointed. only records i found i already had......and st george hanover square isn't covered in the years i need! frustrated.....

[Koromo]

Apparently there is more to come. Their press release says ...

"Today's launch marks the start of a painstaking project to preserve
digitally the City of Westminster Archives Centre's collection, and sees
the first tranche of its baptisms, marriages and burials go online."

… so there could be more years for St George Hanover Square still to be uploaded.

Is anyone able to look at the transcript for the aforementioned marriage of Jacques GRONOUS in 1701, please?

In hope
Koromo

[Anne in Carlisle]

I must be thick but I can't seem to search JUST the Westminster records. I click on "search Westminster records now" and run the search but it just gives me a list of all the records they have for that name, anywhere in the country. :(

Anne

[Loopy Linda in La La Land]

Year:1701
Supplied Surname:BODHAM
Surname:BODHAM
Full First name:Anne
Supplied First Name:An
Spouse Surname:GRONOUS
Spouse Full First name:Jacques
Spouse First Name:Jacques
Place:WESTMINSTER (SPRING GARDENS, HUGUENOT)
County:London
Record source:Boyd's Marriage Index 1538-1840
Data provider:Society of Genealogists
Transcriptions © Society of Genealogists


This is all there is

Linda

[kylejustin]

select 'london' in the county box anne. then it pulls up all the westminster stuff. i do hope they have more parish records coming. i doubt i will find my ancestors in the other records they will release. if i can't find my family in these parish registers, the next best option is my family changed their name slightly, and i still get stuck!

[Koromo]

Year:1701

...
Surname:BODHAM
Full First name:Anne
Spouse Surname:GRONOUS
Spouse Full First name:Jacques
Place:WESTMINSTER (SPRING GARDENS, HUGUENOT)
County:London
...

Linda, that's great! The marriage does fit nicely with other information like their children's baptisms, etc.

The so-called Huguenot/French churches in the early 18th century London included the Savoy Chapel on the Strand which used to be known for dodgy (Anglican) marriages without banns. Hmmmmm!

Thanks again.
Koromo

[Anne in Carlisle]

Thanks Kyle. I managed in the end but very disappointed you cant search the "new collection". Most of the Westminster marriages are just from Boyd's index! Most of the other London ones I already have from Ancestry ..... and have seen the actual PR!!! There are some quite significant mistranscriptions on FMP compared to what I have read on the actual PR on Ancestry.
[Should explain to those that don't already know my searches are general ones for a One Name study]

Anne

[kylejustin]

so it's not just me then? i had thought they already had boyd's on there, but i found the earliest london record i have and it was boyds.

[Richard]

Linda, that's great! The marriage does fit nicely with other information like their children's baptisms, etc.

The so-called Huguenot/French churches in the early 18th century London included the Savoy Chapel on the Strand which used to be known for dodgy (Anglican) marriages without banns. Hmmmmm!

Thanks again.
Koromo

Koromo

I have not come across English couples marrying in any of the French churches in my time researching them, at least one of the partners would have been Huguenot or of Huguenot decent. Jacques Gronous was definitely huguenot. He is noted on the marriage as a tapestry maker (the couple then living in St Bartholomew Close, St Bartholomew parish.) His Huguenot decent is confirmed in an article on Huguenot tapesty makers in Vol 24 of the Huguenot Society of GB & Ireland's proceedings published in 1983. In fact I would be suprised if Anne Bodham was not Huguenot too, as a Philipes Bodham was married to an Elizabeth Cook by the same minister, M.De La Mothe, at the same church a year earlier. Both these marriages were by License from the Bishop of London.

Regards

Richard

[Koromo]

Jacques Gronous was definitely huguenot. He is noted on the marriage as a tapestry maker (the couple then living in St Bartholomew Close, St Bartholomew parish.) His Huguenot decent is confirmed in an article on Huguenot tapesty makers in Vol 24 of the Huguenot Society of GB & Ireland's proceedings published in 1983.

Oh dear!

So, my James GRONOUS and Anna BODHAM who were living in Bartholomew Close when their daughter was baptised on 8 Nov 1702 at St Bartholomew the Great are different from Jacques GRONOUS and Anne BODHAM who were living in Bartholomew Close at their marriage?

James GRONOUS was born 1674 at Kington, Herefordshire, descended from a GRONOUS family of mercers in Presteign, and Norton in Radnorshire — I can get back to 1596 with them. James was apprenticed to a citizen and upholder of London in 1689 and described himself as an upholder in his will of 1742. He also became a JP for Westminster and was a warden at St Clement Danes church; for the year 1739 he was the Master of the Worshipful Company of Upholders.

Phillip BODHAM (wife Elizabeth) was also an upholder of London, who mentions Anna his late sister (died before 1720) and makes my brother in law James Gronous a trustee in his 1727 will. This BODHAM family were from Swaffham in Norfolk; the name BODHAM apparently goes back to the place Bodham/Bodeham in the Domesday Book, according to A Dictionary of English Surnames, 1991.

There's clearly some confusion — mine probably! Any Huguenot/French connection must be through the BODHAMs. Perhaps Jacques/James was a tapestry dealer in line with his upholder/upholsterer trade, rather than a tapestry maker.

Cheers
Koromo

[Richard]

"So, my James GRONOUS and Anna BODHAM who were living in Bartholomew Close when their daughter was baptised on 8 Nov 1702 at St Bartholomew the Great are different from Jacques GRONOUS and Anne BODHAM who were living in Bartholomew Close at their marriage?"

Fairly unlikey I would have thought, must be the same couple. The marriage states his occupation as 'tapis(s)ier' http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tapis(s)ier the definition there includes a dealer in tapestries, but the etymology of the word does come from 'carpeter' so upholsterer probably fits too. Perhaps you are right and it is the contributer to the Huguenot Society proceedings that was wrong to identify him as a Huguenot, the name does sound French, and marrying in a French Church you can see how they may have jumped to that conclusion. I have only viewed an extract of the article via google books so it may be worth sourcing the original in it's entirity to see which sources he cites. The second Bodham marriage at the church may indeed indicate it was the wife's family that provides the Huguenot link.

[Koromo]

Ah, it's all tying in nicely. Putting your tapis(s)ier meaning of a dealer in tapestries alongside the definintion of a mercer (James' father and uncle's occupation) being a person who deals in textile fabrics, esp. silks, velvets, and other fine materials, now chiefly historical, I can see how James might have confused the Huguenot Society.

You had me worried there!

I agree that GRONOUS sounds a bit French, but its origins are from GREENHOUSE. I've found James' family name variously written as Groanhouse, Grovehouse, Gronhous, Gronouse, etc. The London branch gradually changed to GRONOUS (and is not connected to the Welsh GRONOW name).

I don't have much on the BODHAMs. Phillip was baptised in Swaffham 1669 and Anna in 1672, the children of Robert and Anna BODHAM.


Koromo

[Koromo]

... an extract of the article via google books so it may be worth sourcing the original in it's entirity to see which sources he cites ...

For general interest, I've managed to glean a bit more from that Google snippet:

"The admirable records of the Huguenot churches and hospital provide family background to Chabanex and Danthon: they also distinguish a few of their members with the trade of tapis(s)ier. Unless tapis(s)ier is qualified by further description relevant to tapestry, it can mean simply "upholsterer", dealing with soft furnishings. To eliminate such tapis(s)iers from this study, their family names were checked against those of known tapestry-makers, while they and their friends in London were examined for any connection with the tapestry trade. As a result, tentatively identified as upholsterers, but named here, with the date when called tapis(s)ier, in case any reader can produce evidence for tapestry-making, are Salomen Perisson or Perrichon (1681), Isaac Brodu (1694), Nicholas Courtois (1697), Isaac Deschamps (1700), Jacques Gronous (1701), Daniel Pepin (1702), Timothee Tamar (1705) and Francois Deschamps (1725). Of these, Gronous and several members of the Deschamps family were Freemen of the Upholders' Company."