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**Janet in Yorkshire** · 19-03-12, 12:41

I think you really need the marriage cert for Wllm F & Rose, which will give you the name & occupation of both fathers. Lots of Williams as you say, and it would be very easy to follow the wrong one.

Here's a possibility for William Francis in 1891

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=SRYRG12_604_606-0540&fn=William+F&ln=Quatermaire&st=d&ssrc=&pid=18294613

In 1911 William & Rose were in Wimbledon, with a daughter Florence and son Frederick.

Jay

**Janet in Yorkshire** · 19-03-12, 12:50

And in 1901, perhaps

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7814&iid=SRYRG13_657_659-0694&fn=William&ln=Quarterman&st=d&ssrc=&pid=4976039

Jay

**Debbss** · 19-03-12, 13:18

Thanks Jay ;)

**David of Doncaster** · 21-03-12, 02:37

1891 Census Russell Road, Wimbledon, Surrey

FMP - QUATERMAINE, William

Ancestry - William Quatermaire

**David of Doncaster** · 21-03-12, 02:41

Also I think you will find his grandparents were Stephen & Mary Elizabeth

Foreman Of Labourers On Common - does this mean they were Wombles? :D

**Debbss** · 21-03-12, 06:00

Lol! Thanks David!
Funnily enough as a child I used to call our Wimbledon relatives the Wombles!

**Chrissie Smiff** · 21-03-12, 10:11

Please don't forget what I told you some time ago Debs. If you don't wait to see what certificates your contact has when they get back, or send for them yourself as you go, you could easily end up working backwards with the wrong family.

I haven't checked to see whether this is the family that I tried to help you with but I noticed on another thread that you were working backwards with the ones I had found. Although they looked a better match than you ones you had found they could easily still be the wrong family. Anyone on here will tell you the same as I did several times. You only use these suggestions as starting points until you have the actual certificates working backwards slowly. You can't do it all in a few days. I know it's frustrating having to wait but this hobby is like that. It's worth it though in the long run.

I'm only saying this for your sake as it's very frustrating to get loads of information on a family that you THINK are yours only to find that they aren't the right family at all. I do understand though as I was just the same when I started, full of excitement, convinced they must be the right ones and wanting to plough on

**Debbss** · 21-03-12, 10:53

Hi Chrissie

No this is the other Grandfather.

I have tried to heed your advice, as I said on another thread I have ended up deleting loads as I had dived in headfirst! Yes it is VERY frustrating to do that. So I am just sifting through all the possible candidates as thoroughly as I can at this stage, creating a shortlist of who I think I will order Certs for. (If I order all the ones I want I think there will be divorce proceedings in this house! Lol!)

At what stage do you usually order a Cert? At the beginning to clarify the details so you don't waste time and effort, or a bit later when you are more sure its the right one?

Many thanks for the ongoing advice, it is very much appreciated

Debs

**Chrissie Smiff** · 21-03-12, 11:10

Hi Debs

Sorry, I did wonder if it was the other side but I was so anxious to check that you hadn't gone wrong because of anything I had given you.

You don't need EVERY cert connected with the side branches etc. What you need to do is start from what you know as an actual fact. Start with yourself and check whether you have your parents marriage cert. I would want to see that first but failing that, have they told you for a fact that they know who their parents, sisters,brothers aunts are etc? Perhaps you even remember them yourself? If so, and the name is not too common and you can only find one possible marriage for them then you need that certificate to give you their fathers names and occupations and so on gradually working backwards. I'm afraid it can be a slow process and work out quick expensive in the long run. As I say though, you don't need every cert and if you are lucky, when you get back far enough and if they were born/married etc in the right place you can often find the cert on Ancestry.

If ever you are unsure you can always ask on here. We are all happy to help and it usually isn't as complicated as it sounds lol

**Janet in Yorkshire** · 21-03-12, 11:41

I still think you need the marriage cert for William F and Rose, to ascertain the name and occupation of William's father.
I think THERE WERE TWO WILLIAM F's born within a couple of years.
I only THINK the refs I suggested in my earlier posts were for your man, basing my assumption on the facts that in 1911 this William was married to a Rose & said he was born at Wimbledon. But my assumption could easily be WRONG!

Jay

**Debbss** · 21-03-12, 11:42

Hi Chrissie,
Yes I was lucky enough to know them myself. Both of my Grandmothers have been relatively easy as they stayed in or around their families so tracking them has been fairly straightforward. I also knew both of my maternal Great Grandmothers. They both also had relatively unusual surnames so that reduces the amount of information to go through. Although I am sure as I go further back it will get a bit more complicated.

However both of my Grandfathers, for different reasons, seem to have not remained in any contact with their families. Neither of them spoke of their families either. So on their sides I have very little to go on, so I think ordering their MC's would be a good start to clarify their Fathers names and Trades.

My Grandfather on my Mothers side actually still has a sister alive! I have written to her but not had any response.

When I spoke to an Uncle about doing this he wasn't very keen, I think they are worried that I will unearth skeletons. (Some I know about, some I am sure are there waiting to be found!!).
I think because my surviving family are still relatively young, (My oldest Uncle is only 66) and perhaps haven't told their spouses, children etc, certain things about our family they are very wary. The ones I have spoken to seem very much in the past is the past, leave it well alone mindset.
Perhaps they are right, maybe it is not 'old' enough history to be safe to have out in the open. But as I know quite a bit of it anyway I shall carry on regardless.
However, they don't need to know what I find as my tree and research are Private, for my eyes only and whatever awful secrets I uncover will remain that way. ;)

I am very keen to 'get it right', but yes, as you say, do get a bit excited and carried away when I think I have it - learning the hard way though!! Lol!

I will keep asking on here, thank you! I'm sure you must be fed up with my endless questions by now though :o

Debs

**Debbss** · 21-03-12, 11:47

Thanks Jay, I have looked long and hard at both of the William F's, and am not really much clearer in my mind, so yes, the Certs will definitely be ordered for him!
One of them seems more likely to be mine, as the other one of them had children who went on to become Bankers and Stockbrokers, which certainly isn't true of my family, but it doesn't mean its impossible so I will get as much 'proof' of which one as I can.

Debs

**Chrissie Smiff** · 21-03-12, 11:51

The helpful people on here never get fed up with questions Debs

There is almost always someone around willing to try and help.

**kylejustin** · 22-03-12, 00:14

i'd think you'd need your grandparents marriages anyway, to confirm both sets of great grandfathers! some people aren't too keen on their family histories coming to light. some are genuinly awful, but others to current generations have no bite in them anymore, but would have shamed our grandparents or great grandparents. my own grandmother encouraged me to do the family tree and loves chatting with me over it, but if i started poking around my grandfather's ancestry, she told me i had no business doing it, and that i was not allowed to speak to his relatives! whatever you say,grandma! i told her she had no business telling me what i was or was not allowed to know of my heritage, and that she was a hypocrite for even suggesting it! there is bad blood between her and grandad's rellies though, so she was probably worried they would say things that are not respectable.

**Debbss** · 22-03-12, 07:46

I have no reason to believe that my Grandfathers were not who they said they were.
Its their Grandfathers that are the difficult ones to define without a Cert. I think I have the right ones as I knew both of my Greatgrandmothers so know the correct name and DOB, addresses etc.
But its Pre-marriage that I lose them as there are several of the same name, similar DOB, similar area etc.

So this time I am not following hunches because last time I did that I ended up with my Husband being related to the Queen of Sheba!! :o Took me ages to work out where and why and I ended up deleting the majority of the tree, even some of the right ones as it was a muddle!
I doubt there is anything to cause me, or anyone else, huge shame in our history, after all its the past and its not our generations fault what they did. Maybe I am too liberally minded, I think it just adds an extra interest factor.
But it would appear that some of my Uncles are sensitive souls who would like to keep it all quiet. 2 of them, in particular, are being most unhelpful, almost obstructive!! 'So could you tell me where Granddad worked' - 'No, I dont remember' !!!!!!
Reallyyyy??!!

It just makes me more determined to do it ............

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