advice please

[quoy]

If a birth was registered in Ireland with a military family
could it also be registered in England

Name: WIBBERLEY, John S C M
Mother's name: Not available before 1966
Regiment:Royal Artillery
Place : Queenstown
Country: Unknown
Year: 1888
Volume : 1608
Page: 76
Record source: GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 to 1924)


:
John Stanley C M Webberley
BIRTH:
Oct 1888 - Portsea Island, Hampshire

spelling variation applies


thank you

[Janet]

My ancestor born 1866 Kildare to an English soldier and an Irish mother is registered as a birth in Ireland and I obtained the Baptismal Certificate from the GRO Southport through giving the correct numbers required found in the Regimental Birth Indexes. I could obtain her Birth Certificate from Ireland if I wanted but I am happy enough with the information I have. I also have the Irish Marriage found in the same Index and obtained through GRO Southport for the same price as you would pay for ordinary English and Welsh certificates. Ireland was part of the UK until partition 1922 and still within the Commonwealth until 1949.

Baptismal Certs will give you most of the information you require except that you may find the birth details and place of birth may be missing and that could be a problem. My Grandmother was born Sheffield but baptised Portsea and obtaining that certificate through the Regimental Indexes did cause me a problem for a while as I thought she was born Portsea, but all those born in England/Wales you can obtain both Baptismal and Birth records and I have both for my grandmother also born to the same soldier. All certificates obtained through the Regimental Indexes ae Baptismal Certificates, NOT Birth Certificates. The birth certificates for service children born UK should be found in the ordinary indexes for those born England/Wales but NOT for those born Ireland. I hope this makes sense!

Janet

[Darksecretz]

Hello Quoy

welcome to the forum,

I don't know is the honest answer, but, It looks very plausible. Maybe some of our other members might know if this was the case or not, I don't have any military births in my line, so not sure if this is a known protocol or not.

[quoy]

Thank you Janet for your very informative explanation

Thank you Julie for the welcome

[Darksecretz]

you are very welcome Quoy, :smilee:

[Olde Crone Holden]

Janet

That is extremely interesting.

I doubt if many people would realise that records described as GRO birth indexes are actually BAPTISMAL records - I certainly wouldn't have known that.

OC

[PhotoFamily]

If you have a gro index, I think you can order it.

My ancestor that was born in Kildare in 1863 is not in the overseas register.

But my other ancestor, born in Bermuda, was, and GRO provided the cert, no problem

Worst case the scenario, you order it, and, if they don't find it, they'll return your money - or at least that was my experience with the Gibraltar marriage that they didn't find.

[PhotoFamily]

uh, but one piece of bad news:
the birth cert that I did receive didn't have mom's maiden name

[Olde Crone Holden]

Photo family

I think we are at cross purposes here - the GRO Regimental Indexes are not the same as the GRO Overseas births. Irish births are recorded by GROI, which is not the same thing as Overseas births.

OC

[PhotoFamily]

:o - oh, well

[Janet]

OC

Yes one has to be very careful looking at these certificates from the Regimental Indexes because they do look so alike but give you slightly different information. The one I have for my grandmother is white instead of pink and is headed:

"An entry in an Army Register Book of Births Baptisms and Marriages" followed by:
"Certified Copy of Birth 33rd Regiment-Registry of Baptism"
Then follows "The date of the Child's Birth 13 April 1868 a gap then Place and date of Child's Baptism 19 July 1868 followed by name of child and Portsea. It was that which confused me! Parents' names are down but no former/maiden name of the mother so they differ from the actual Birth Certificate because they usually give both dates of birth and baptism but do not always, if ever, give you place of birth but give the place of baptism. Now in many cases it may well be the same place but not always and it is so easy for a soldier to have a child in one barracks and two months later be somewhere else as in my case he had gone to Portsea and this can so easily confuse people unless they are aware that it could happen. Obtaining her birth certificate confirmed she was born Yorkshire and her mother's former name so just a warning to be aware the certs are different and can give you different information which may lead you up the wrong path!

Janet

[quoy]

Thank you all for your replies
Going on the premise that John S C M Wibberley and John Stanley C M Webberley are one and the same I Have
1901
John Wibberley
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: School Boy
Gender: Male
Where born: Portsea, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity and St Jude
County/Island: London
Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea, South
ED, institution, or vessel: Duke Of Yorks Royal Military Asylum

I know his father died in Ceylon 1899 so that would explain why he was in barracks as this was for orphaned children of military personal.
I have his mother ,brothers and sisters forward but I cannot find any other information on John S C M.


If anyone has the time to have a look I would be very pleased if you could spot anything at all on him.

[Darksecretz]

I can't see a dickey bird Quoy... how odd that he seems to have disappeared

[Janet]

John Wibberley age 12 is not in barracks but attending the Duke of Yorks Royal Military Asylum which was an army school for both boys and girls of rank and file soldiers, whose fathers may have died but not necessarily so. It was a boarding school so you will not find the rest of his family here. I have two ancestors who attended this school whose father was still alive whilst they were there. At this school they received a good education from the age of about 12 to 14 and either went on into the army as drummer boys to start with or left the school with trades. Both mine left the school to enter the army at 14 as drummer boys and at that age are with a regiment and they also had tailors' trades. Have you googled Duke of Yorks Royal Military Asylum for further information? They were known as the Dukies. The school still exists but is now at Deal. Googling will bring up further information for you where you can apply to obtain details of entry which then when you write to the school at Deal may well furnish you with the same pot of genealogical gold that I received! I did send a donation to the school unless they now charge if inundated by too many requests. I obtained my records about 5 years ago. But you need their details of entry first. I do not have the website to hand but googling will show it up.

Just googled and many sites turn up with lots of information but the one below is the one I contacted for further information.

http://www.rma-searcher.co.uk/chelsea/index.htm

Janet