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Sherbertrose
20-02-12, 09:28
Last weekend I had a very pleasant, but frustrating visit to Whitby looking for Smiths!! Thomas and Mary Smith to be precise. The combination could not be much worse.

Thomas and Mary Smith were living in Sandsend Whitby in 1841 and Thomas is living in Sandsend as a Widow in 1851. This is the parish of Lythe. So, it would seem likely that any burials would be in the church yard. I looked all round the church yard and through their burial file. No sign of Thomas and Mary.

I have the NBI and there are no burials for Whitby for Thomas and Mary for the dates in question. Having gone through the death registrations on Ancestry there are only two that fit(assuming they both died in Whitby)Mary 4th quarter of 1841 and Thomas 3rd quarter of 1860.

Is the burial index compiled from church records/grave stones? If so I am wondering if it is still possible for Thomas and Mary to be buried in Lythe Church but the records are not on the NBI. I realise the only way to establish if I have the correct deaths is to pay for death certificates.

Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.

Sandra

Darksecretz
20-02-12, 09:58
Hi Sandra,

I 'think' that the NBI are transcribed from the parish records.


The NBI does not contain monumental inscription records or death registrations. Burial records are transcribed mainly by family history societies although helpful individuals contribute as well. The sources used are: parish registers, bishop's transcripts, earlier transcripts or printed registers, cemetery and crematorium records in all locations (parishes).

http://www.ffhs.org.uk/projects/nbi/nbi-overview.php

Darksecretz
20-02-12, 10:05
do you have the link please Sandra for the census refs..

Sherbertrose
20-02-12, 11:14
Hi Julie,

Thomas Smith 1851 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2374; Folio: 631; Page: 19; GSU roll: 87660-87662.

Thomas and Mary 1841 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1256; Book: 6; Civil Parish: Lythe; County: Yorkshire; Enumeration District: 2a; Folio: 10; Page: 6; Line: 3; GSU roll: 464233.

Sorry for not replying sooner a pile of ironing was calling me!!

Sandra

maudarby
20-02-12, 11:39
Just been looking at the coverage for Lythe in the NBI & there is a gap between 1837 & 1852 but there is no record of a Thomas Smith in 1860.
Moggie

Darksecretz
20-02-12, 13:28
just found this..

Name: Thomas Smith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1789
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1869
Age at Death: 80
Registration district: Whitby
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 298

though that would indicate he was on the 1861 cens..

Darksecretz
20-02-12, 13:40
did Elizabeth marry at all Sandra?

Sherbertrose
20-02-12, 13:48
Thank you Moggie and Julie for your replys. The gap you found may explain why there is no record for Mary Smith and is quite possible that Thomas moved from Sandsend between 1851 and his death. Julie, I have looked at the 1861 census and I can not find Thomas on the 1861 census. However, it is not the best of names to search!

I am not sure whether Elizabeth married. If she did I have not found her marriage.

Sandra

maudarby
20-02-12, 14:15
just found this..

Name: Thomas Smith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1789
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1869
Age at Death: 80
Registration district: Whitby
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 298

though that would indicate he was on the 1861 cens..

That Thomas Smith possibly buried 9th August 1869 age 80 at Egton St Hilda
Moggie

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 09:58
Back to my Smith hunt having had to go out and earn a living yesterday! If any one has any spare time I would appreciate help tracking Thomas and Mary's Children. Be warned despite at least two of their daughters marrying they don't make life easy.

Perhaps I had better state what I know.

Thomas and Mary had 6 known children - three girls and three boys. They were as follows:

Thomas born c1813 Whitby, baptism 31 Jan 1813 Whitby.

Hannah born 29 Dec 1814 Sandsend, baptism 3 Jan 1815 Whitby. Married William Dobson at Pickering 1837. Last found Scarborough living in Oxford Street 1861. She dies between 1861 and 1871. Her Husband William is shown as a Widower in 1871. I can not find a death registration for her unless he date of birth is way out. Hannah is my direct ancestor.

William born 1816 Whitby, baptised 9 Nov 1816

Margaret born 1819, baptised 9 June 1819. Margaret married John Phillips 31 Mar 1842 Lythe (Source igi). She is on the 1851 census living as a servant in Mulgrave Castle. Whitby. I can't find her before or after 1851. Her husband is not with her in 1851.

Elizabeth Smith born 1824, baptised 28 Sep 1824. Living with parents 1841. She presumably married after this but to whom I do not know.

Isaiah born 1827, baptised 14 Nov 1827. Living in Skelton in Cleveland 1841 dies in Liverton 1847, burial 14 July 1847

All help will be very much appreciated

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 10:11
Hannah born 29 Dec 1814 Sandsend, baptism 3 Jan 1815 Whitby. Married William Dobson Pickering 1837. Last found Scarborough living in Oxford Street 1861. She dies between 1861 and 1871. Her Husband William is shown as a Widower in 1871. I can not find a death registration for her unless he date of birth is way out. Hannah is my direct ancestor.

do you have hyperlinks to the census refs Sandra please.. am not finding her via searching

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 11:05
Hi Julie,

This is the references for Hannah 1861 Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 3616; Folio: 71; Page: 29; GSU roll: 543161.

Margaret Phillips -Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2374; Folio: 655; Page: 25; GSU roll: 87660-87662.

Sorry for the delay in replying - I had to nip out.

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 11:15
no probs though I am having a devil of a time trying to find her... I still can't see her with the refs either!!

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 11:27
Hi Julie,

Does this help?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&gsfn=hannah&gsln=dobson&gsby=1814&gsb2co=3251%2cEngland&gsb2pl=5292%2cYorkshire&gsdy=&gsd2co=1%2cAll+Countries&gsd2pl=1%2c+&sbo=0&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 11:51
oh I see they used DOBSON.. i was looking under pickering!! duh!!

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 12:06
is this william in 1881?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&h=26380384&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=8767

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 12:07
Hi Julie,

Sorry that was my mistake - lack of punctuation they married in Pickering!!

Sandra

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 12:15
Hi Julie,

No William was still in Scarborough in 1881.( Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4802; Folio: 98; Page: 39; GSU roll: 1342159.) He was a Shoe maker. I think he died in 1887.

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 12:15
ohhhhhhhhhhhhh lol!! oops.. :emb:

not the easiest to find are they?

I don't think that 81 I have is the right one, as he is a retired auctioneer..

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 12:16
Hi Julie,

No William was still in Scarborough in 1881.( Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4802; Folio: 98; Page: 39; GSU roll: 1342159.) He was a Shoe maker. I think he died in 1887.

Sandra

@ Hunters Balcony? with someone called DAVY?

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 12:45
Hi Julie,

That's him. But my Dobson's are another story and just as bad as Smiths. I would like to know when and where Hannah died though.

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 12:52
have you found any of their children in the census? maybe she went to stay with one of them and died where they lived?

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 13:01
Hi Julie,

They had eight children - two, possibly three identified in the census returns. But no sign of Hannah.

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 14:49
hmmn not having much luck Sandra,

I cannot see a likely death for Hannah, I have thomas their son upto 1871 I think it is, and after that I lose him.

thomas in 1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&h=10165335&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=8767

mary in 1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&h=10166955&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=8767

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 14:59
Hi Julie,

Thomas is the possibly one. I think he may have married Mary Ward in 1877(Scarborough),but can't find him after this. The only other two children that I have managed to track are Mary Dobson (born 1849)and Margaret Ann Dobson (born 1856).In both instances there are older sisters with same name - I presume they died. Hannah is definitely not with either of these families.

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 15:05
what about Hannah the daughter? have you found her at all?

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 15:12
Hi Julie,

No I haven't. I did say that the Dobson's were just as bad as the Smiths!!

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 15:44
Hi Julie,

No I haven't. I did say that the Dobson's were just as bad as the Smiths!!

Sandra

er...yes!! lol!

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 15:45
could this be Hannah in 1871? http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&h=11442735&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=8767

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 16:08
Hi Julie,

It is certainly a possibility. However, I did find another possibility which cant be ruled out - a marriage Hannah Dobson and George Milner 4th q 1871. It could be that Hannah came up to Scarbrough for the marriage. The problem is I can't justify buying the certificate to find out.

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 16:10
Hi Julie,

It is certainly a possibility. However, I did find another possibility which cant be ruled out - a marriage Hannah Dobson and George Milner 4th q 1871. It could be that Hannah came up to Scarbrough for the marriage. The problem is I can't justify buying the certificate to find out.

Sandra

thats true.. though just to throw another spanner in it, I have found another Hannah Dobson in Islington b. same time but wakefield not pickering.. in 1861 so is looking more likely that one is not yours. :(

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 16:12
Hi Julie,

It is certainly a possibility. However, I did find another possibility which cant be ruled out - a marriage Hannah Dobson and George Milner 4th q 1871. It could be that Hannah came up to Scarbrough for the marriage. The problem is I can't justify buying the certificate to find out.

Sandra

and that hannah/george it looks like she was born in Batley..

Sherbertrose
22-02-12, 18:00
Hi Julie,

Thanks for all your efforts. The problem with my family history is what's left to find is the difficult stuff!!

Sandra

Darksecretz
22-02-12, 18:51
just gutted I can't find anything substantial for you, I know how difficult it can be/get and blummin frustrating!