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Statutory declaration of birth and my elusive grandmother....

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  • Statutory declaration of birth and my elusive grandmother....

    Hiya all, It's been some years since Iv'e done any family research and posted on here so I'm a little rusty to say the least, please bare with me and I apologise if Iv'e posted in wrong place. Looking forward to seeing some familiar names around

    Right down to business lol I've struggled for years to locate my grandmothers (Elizabeth Handley) birth ref and I've trawled through years and years of images searching for her to no avail. However I had a little break through a couple of years ago when after a family bereavement the family discovered a document appertaining to my elusive grand mother Elizabeth Handley. The document is a Statutory declaration in a very tatty condition, it was made in 1919 in Salford Manchester. The parts that I can make out read that Elizabeth Handley was born at Dimity street, Ancoats Manchester on the 12th May 1905. The signature of parent is difficult to read due to condition of the declaration and I can not make it out :( Iv'e tried to locate an Elizabeth Handley c1905 born Manchester/Ancoats on 1911 census but had no luck. On both her marriage certs she states her father to be Edward Handley a market porter (deceased by 1942) but this has not helped me locate her on 1911 census. Her death cert confirms her DOB to be that stated on the declaration (informant was her daughter) Her close family say she was Illegitimate as far as they know? Can any body suggest any ideas of how I may be able to finally track her down lol I'm banging my head against a brick wall and going round in circles arrgghhhhh........... Thanks Tracy ps I can post up a copy of the declaration but not sure where I post it to?? perhaps some body can have a look and try make out her parents name? I think the declaration was needed because not only was her birth not registered but given the fact she was 14 at the time it may have been needed for employment purposes, any other opinions on this are welcome...

    Does any body know if you can get copies of statutory Declarations?
    Last edited by Lady Liberty; 19-02-12, 20:53. Reason: added more info

  • #2
    I think the declaration was needed because not only was her birth not registered but given the fact she was 14 at the time it may have been needed for employment purposes, any other opinions on this are welcome...
    That was what I was about to suggest as a very likely explanation.

    On both her marriage certs she states her father to be Edward Handley a market porter (deceased by 1942) but this has not helped me locate her on 1911 census. Her death cert confirms her DOB to be that stated on the declaration (informant was her daughter) Her close family say she was Illegitimate as far as they know?
    Those statements are not necessarily entirely contradictory... being illegitimate used to carry dreadful a stigma - hence the fact that "b4st4rd" became an insult. To admit that you had no known father could be dreadfully difficult on your wedding day. Many people invented fathers for the purpose. Even when they weren't invented, they were often "promoted" (station porters became station masters, ag labs became farmers, and so on).

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

    Comment


    • #3
      if you know how to use photobucket Tracy, you can put it in that and then post the link on this thread to it and it will show on this thread.

      How-to-Use-Photobucket
      Last edited by Darksecretz; 19-02-12, 21:42.
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #4
        Hiya Christine, thanks for your response..

        On her second marriage cert she ages herself by a few years and her hubby (my grandfather born c 1884) knocks a few year off his age lol so apart from the stigma of being Illegitimate - she's deffo capable of telling porkies......

        I just thought, would the details of a Statutory declaration be actually registered on birth index even though it was in this case some years after actual birth? Sorry for my ignorance Iv'e never come across a declaration before..
        Last edited by Lady Liberty; 23-02-12, 15:51.

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        • #5
          Hiya Julie, how are you lol your one of the familiar names I recall and I used to be on photo bucket but not accessed it for about 6 years lol will see if I can remember how to do it, oh and if I can remember my password.......lots of dust needs removing... lol
          Last edited by Lady Liberty; 19-02-12, 21:53.

          Comment


          • #6
            Who is the Statutory Declaration being made to? If it was to the registrar then there ought to be an explanatory note, something along the lines of "Birth not registered" or something.

            If one of her parents signed the Declaration then they would surely know whether they registered the birth (and in what name).

            Sounds like it was a fudge to hide illegitimacy.

            OC

            Comment


            • #7
              As I understand it a Statutory Declaration is usually made when an alteration is made to a birth registration to add or amend a detail such as adding the father after he has married the mother.

              It would be best if you could put up a scan on photobucket for us to see so we can advise further. I would have thought the entry in the original register would have been annotated and a note made on the index to show where the new registration had been made. These are often handwritten at the bottom of the index page where the first entry was made and then the same on the index where the new entry is included.

              For example if the birth was originally in Sep Q 1905 and the is amended in Dec Q 1906 you should see one ref pointing to the other and in the alphabetical place where each name occurs.

              Hope that makes sense.
              Margaret

              PS -oops didn't refresh before I posted this so duplicates advice already given.
              Last edited by margaretmarch; 19-02-12, 21:53.

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              • #8
                Margaret

                I agree with what you have said, but I have also seen Statutory Declarations made where there is no birth certificate found, for instance, in order to claim a State Pension, or to prove age for other reasons.

                In this case, as she was 14, it may have been to prove her age for employment purposes because she had no birth certificate.

                OC

                Comment


                • #9
                  The image comes up rather small... I can't really read it.

                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lady Liberty View Post
                    Hiya Julie, how are you lol your one of the familiar names I recall and I used to be on photo bucket but not accessed it for about 6 years lol will see if I can remember how to do it, oh and if I can remember my password.......lots of dust needs removing... lol
                    not too bad Tracy ta, lovely to see you again (and hopefully get you back in the swing of things) :smilee: if you are still having probs with PB then if you PM me i'll give you my email addy and we can get it on here for you.
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      img050.jpg

                      I cant get it to show any larger, don't understand that as its much larger on my scan copy?? Will attempt photo bucket...lol

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tracy,

                        do you know of any siblings to your grandmother, do you know what her mothers name was?
                        Julie
                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                        .......I find dead people

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I suspect that you have already discounted this one?

                          Name: Elizabeth Ann Handley
                          Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1905
                          Registration district: Oldham
                          Inferred County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
                          Volume: 8d
                          Page: 654
                          Julie
                          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                          .......I find dead people

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I remember my Cousins son gave me a box of family papers to look through several years ago.
                            Among those papers was a declaration similar to this one from when his Mother was 14 years old before starting work as it was a requirement for work.
                            She is still living and 101 this year.
                            She had two parents and a birth cert.

                            I suggest this is just the same thing a declaration to begin work being the correct age.

                            I think I have a copy somewhere but not able to find it at the moment.

                            Edna

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                              Who is the Statutory Declaration being made to? If it was to the registrar then there ought to be an explanatory note, something along the lines of "Birth not registered" or something.

                              If one of her parents signed the Declaration then they would surely know whether they registered the birth (and in what name).

                              Sounds like it was a fudge to hide illegitimacy.

                              There is no explanatory note on the declaration.

                              OC
                              There is no explanatory note. Details read as follows:

                              Statutory declaration by parent

                              I hear by solemnly declare that "Elizabeth Handley" was born on 12th day of May at Dimity street Ancoats Manchester. And I make the above declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the statutory declarations act, 1835.
                              Declared before me at Salford in the county of Lancaster, this 11th day of July 1919. Signed ?? Delves Justice of the peace for the county borough of Salford. Signed by parent - but I can't make the name out?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                I suspect that you have already discounted this one?

                                Name: Elizabeth Ann Handley
                                Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1905
                                Registration district: Oldham
                                Inferred County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
                                Volume: 8d
                                Page: 654
                                Yes I have Julie, i got that frustrated I concidered adopting her though lol thanks for looking..

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                  Tracy,

                                  do you know of any siblings to your grandmother, do you know what her mothers name was?
                                  No idea of any siblings Julie and I don't know who her mother was as her birth doesn't appear to have been registered :(

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Yes, it's a statutory declaration made in front of a JP, not the Registrar, so it's for employment purposes.

                                    I can't read it - too small - but if it is the mother who has signed it, you would think she knew whether she had registered the birth or not!

                                    OC

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Tracy

                                      check your PMs on here, I have sent you one..

                                      re the siblings and mother, I thought that maybe she might have named her own children after siblings/mother.. long shot I know.
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by clematised View Post
                                        I remember my Cousins son gave me a box of family papers to look through several years ago.
                                        Among those papers was a declaration similar to this one from when his Mother was 14 years old before starting work as it was a requirement for work.
                                        She is still living and 101 this year.
                                        She had two parents and a birth cert.

                                        I suggest this is just the same thing a declaration to begin work being the correct age.

                                        I think I have a copy somewhere but not able to find it at the moment.

                                        Edna
                                        Hiya Edna, I can find no birth reg for her, well not by going off the details on the declaration anyway, so in my case it doesn't look like she was registered. I'm confused to why a declaration would be needed for work purposes if a birth cert exist? Surely the birth cert would be suffice? I'm no expert though lol

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