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  • Mother's detail on Birth Certificate

    Could someone please tell me the meaning on the mother details on a Birth Certificate

    They read:
    Anne Mile
    Late
    Ablethorpe
    formerly Saunders

    I was thinking that she had died, but she was the informant 3 weeks later (See Attachment)

    img158.pdf

    Steve.
    Steve.
    Researching;Fitzjohn:Crouch:Parker:Howlett ;)

  • #2
    She was Anne Miles when registered birth
    previously married to Mr Ablethorpe
    birth name was Saunders

    someone will correct me if got wrong way round x
    Jayne




    My avatar is great great granny Annie Pugh, possibly christened 24 Feb 1858.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dopeyploppy View Post
      She was Anne Miles when registered birth
      previously married to Mr Ablethorpe
      birth name was Saunders

      someone will correct me if got wrong way round x
      I tend to agree although it would have been clearer if they had said "maiden surname Saunders"
      herky
      Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

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      • #4
        yep that is right Jayne,

        second married name MILES

        first married name ABLETHORPE

        Maiden name SAUNDERS
        Last edited by Darksecretz; 10-02-12, 20:59. Reason: spelling!!!
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for all your replies,

          Just to throw a spanner in the works.
          I have just found the marriage record of Ann Ablethorpe married John Miles, the problem is her father's name is George Ablethorpe and not 'Saunders as this would have been her maiden name!
          I can't seem to find anything on a George Ablethorpe.

          Steve.
          Steve.
          Researching;Fitzjohn:Crouch:Parker:Howlett ;)

          Comment


          • #6
            Steve,

            where have you found this? is this the Ann Ablethorpe that is in Northants? with husband Charles?
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              Julie,

              This marriage was in Haggerston, London in 26th February 1877 from Ancestry.

              The surname 'Ablethorpe' is a rare name with only 14 registered in the 1881 census, mainly from Northampton area.

              Sorry, can't seem to add attachments to a quick reply.
              Last edited by fitzjohn1001; 10-02-12, 21:33.
              Steve.
              Researching;Fitzjohn:Crouch:Parker:Howlett ;)

              Comment


              • #8
                s'ok Steve, I have found it, this is very puzzling.. I have found a birth for a Mary Ann Ablethorpe.. 1856

                Name: Mary Ann Ablethorp
                Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1856
                Registration district: Hackney
                Inferred County: London
                Volume: 1b
                Page: 311

                I have found her on the 1871 census.

                hmm

                Name: Mary Ann Ablethorpe
                Age: 29
                Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
                Spouse Name: William George Swant
                Spouse Age: 30
                Record Type: Marriage
                Event Date: 17 Jun 1888
                Parish: Bethnal Green St James the Great
                Borough: Tower Hamlets
                Father Name: George Thomas Ablethorpe
                Spouse Father Name: Frederick Swant
                Register Type: Parish Register
                Last edited by Darksecretz; 10-02-12, 21:40.
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have found a George Ablethopre 1851 census, born 1835/6, St. Lukes London.

                  I think Mary Ann Ablethorpe is incorrect, found her marriage June 1888 to a Albert DEE, Bethnal Green.
                  Last edited by fitzjohn1001; 10-02-12, 22:10.
                  Steve.
                  Researching;Fitzjohn:Crouch:Parker:Howlett ;)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    On her marriage to John, Ann is recorded as a spinster so perhaps in this instance she was born before her parents married.
                    MILES - her married name
                    ABLETHORPE - her father's name & the name by which she was known
                    SAUNDERS - her mother's name & the name she was registered under

                    Just a thought.
                    Glen

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                    • #11
                      Oakum

                      I think in the scenario you describe, she would have been "formerly Ablethorpe otherwise Saunders".

                      "Late Ablethorpe" means Mr Ablethorpe died (or they were divorced, unlikely).

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        I just wondered how rigid the terminology was, as I have a woman who is recorded SMITH otherwise SMITH when the 1st SMITH was her married name.
                        Glen

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                        • #13
                          LOLOLOL!!! Smith otherwise Smith seems a bit pointless as a way of identifying anyone!

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            SMITH wasn't the name but her maiden name was the same as her married name. What I was trying to point out was that she was not recorded as SMITH formerly SMITH but as SMITH otherwise SMITH. So I thought it might possibly happen in reverse.
                            Glen

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                            • #15
                              Smith otherwise Brown - yes, there's a point I suppose, but Smith otherwise Smith isn't any help to anyone at all, is it:

                              "Oh, everyone calls me Mrs Smith but my name is really Mrs Smith..."

                              OC

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Confusion is often caused by "late" meaning "previously" as in Evans late Gray (where Gray is a maiden name) as opposed to "late" meaning "dead" as in "her late husband". With many people nowadays having multiple marriages and the trend for children to have new surnames, double-barrelled, from their mother's and father's separate surnames I think later family historians will find a lot of puzzles on certs!
                                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Sorry Nell, I'm going to argue!

                                  Maiden name (that is, the name you used before you ever married, nearly always, but not always, the surname you were born with) is always indicated on a certificate by "formerly".

                                  "Late" means the most recent married surname you have used. When Civil Reg was set up in 1837, the only way that marriage could end was in death, thus if a woman married twice, she was the widow of the "late" Mr Doodah.

                                  It is, for modern times, an unfortunate description and really ought to be changed to "previously" to be clear.

                                  OC

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                                  • #18
                                    Sorry OC, you're right. I just meant the confusion between late meaning a previous name by which someone was known and late meaning deceased! But I've just added to the confusion!
                                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      You're still missing my point OC. Unfortunately in my case her maiden & first married name happened to be the same but my point was that she was recorded as otherwise rather than formerly, in answer to your #post 11. All I was saying was , could this have happened the other way round?
                                      Glen

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                                      • #20
                                        Glen

                                        Well it's always possible that a mistake has been made on any written record.

                                        OC

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