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  • Quick q....

    I'm tying up a few loose ends (and have been for the last few weeks)...

    I have a query relating to Joseph Gilbert Matthews b. 1832 (ish) in St Buryan, Cornwall.
    I couldn't help but wonder if the 'Gilbert' was significant.. Turns out it may well have been...

    I found a transcription on West Penwith Resources of Joseph's marriage to Mary Berryman in 1853.

    Joseph Gilbert Matthews 20 batchelor Labourer of Sparnon [mark] (Father: William Gilbert [sic], Miner)
    Mary Berryman 20 spinster of Sparnon [mark] (Father: John Berryman, Labourer)
    Witnesses: Elizabeth Ann Mitchell, Rebecca Blewett

    Going back, I found a baptism on the same site for a Joseph Matthews which fits in:

    Event: St Buryan Baptisms 1832
    21 Oct Joseph c/o Mary Matthews (Single Woman) of Church Town
    Would I be correct in saying that Joseph was illegitimate? Even just from the marriage alone, as that is definitely right.

    Also what could [sic] mean next to the father's name?

    Thanks in advance.

    Beth

  • #2
    The dictionary definition of "sic" is

    "Thus; so. Used to indicate that a quoted passage, especially one containing an error or unconventional spelling, has been retained in its original form or written intentionally"

    I've seen it used when someone has copied a piece of writing and has deliberately copied errors word (or spelling) for word.

    I assume the person writing the cert wanted it known that it was not an error

    I agree that the all of the evidence indicates that Joseph was illegitimate
    Jackie

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    • #3
      Oh lucky you. It's great when evidence of father's name turn's up for illegitimate ancestors. sic is Latin for thus and is usually added to signify that although one might expect something else this is what was written in the original. Often used when transcribing spelling "errors" but in this case used to show that wasn't father's surname really wasn't same as son's.
      Judith passed away in October 2018

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you Jackie & Judith..

        I couldn't quite believe my luck. I'd discounted his marriage previously as there's no mention of 'Gilbert' anywhere else. It is only recorded at the time of his marriage. So possibly added in by whoever wrote out the information???

        Also, for William Gilbert to be named as his father on marriage record would William have had to agree that he was his child therefore legitimising him?

        Comment


        • #5
          the only way an illegitimate child could become legitimate is if the parents married.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you.... I don't think the parents EVER married! I am having trouble placing Joseph in1841 & 1851. I *think* I have him... with a Jilbart family in 1841, and a Wallish family in 1851.

            I can't locate Mary for love nor money... Nor am I sure where William Gilbert is either.

            Comment


            • #7
              Although I agree with the definition and usage of the word sic, as described above, I think there might be another reason for the vicar using it - he is delicately indicating that this is what is being SAID, but that there is no real proof that it is true.

              I have several marriage certs where the father has a different surname from the son and they are not marked "sic". Are you sure this word appears on the ceriticate and is not just a remark made by the transcriber?

              OC

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              • #8
                I'm not sure.... haven't gotten hold of the cert yet...

                it's a transcription on a website of the parish records... here: http://west-penwith.org.uk/burmar3.htm ((8th Oct 1853))

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'll be surprised if it says sic on the marriage cert. The more I think about this, the more I think it is a comment made by the transcriber, not the vicar.

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    Okie dokie... I guess I'll order marriage cert... Where would be the best place to order it from? Do the local register offices use the same 'copy' as the GRO?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I hope I'm not confusing you - it's clear that he was giving his father's name as he knew it and as it was different from the surname he used himself, the transcriber has writtn "sic" to show that he (transcriber) hasn't made a copying error.

                      The copy you get from a local RO is nearer to the original than the copy you get from the GRO. Sometimes that makes a difference and sometimes it doesn't, lol!

                      If you don't actually NEED the marriage cert, why don't you get in touch with West Penwith OPC and ask them who wrote "sic" - is it on the original parish record, or did the transcriber write it? They are usually very helpful.

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OC are all the cert applications centralised now to come out of Truro? I think I remember something somewhere about it happening.
                        Julie
                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                        .......I find dead people

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh, I'm not exactly sure, but I do know that all the Register Offices in West Cornwall are now only open to the public by appointment, so I would imagine they have centralised the records.

                          OC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you all.. I'll get in touch with West Penwith OPC first... Then that'll be down as a non-urgent cert to add to my collection.. ;)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                              Oh, I'm not exactly sure, but I do know that all the Register Offices in West Cornwall are now only open to the public by appointment, so I would imagine they have centralised the records.

                              OC
                              yup.. this is what I have found: from: http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=14466 you need to scroll down to 'family history'

                              The Registration Service has custody of registers that recorded births, deaths and marriages occurring in Cornwall since July 1837 when civil registration was introduced.
                              The service had eleven Registration Districts, but from 1st May 2007, the Districts were abolished and one District was created for the whole county. The Service also holds registers for both civil marriages and non-conformist chapels, Church of England, meeting houses, Jewish marriages and other religious buildings where marriages have taken place
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

                              Comment

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