James & Mary Gooch are missing sfter 1881

[Janet in Yorkshire]

James Gooch married Mary Bingham at Islington St Mary 12 Apr 1880.
They were recorded in 1881 in Middlesex, at 167 Lupus St - James was a carpenter.

Can anyone find them after 1881 census, please?

for background
James Alfred Gooch was born in Norway (Christianaland) in 1853
1861 census he & his siblings were in Mundesley, Nfk, in the care of a maternal aunt.
1871 census - he was lodging in Sleap & Smallford Herts with his father & step-mother - James was a carpenter
Mary Bingham was born in Shoreditch in 1852. In 1881 she gave St Lukes Mx as pob

Thanks for looking,
Jay

[herky]

This is a long shot with nothing really matching but I have found one James GOOCH, b c 1854 who was a carpenter - but nothing else fits, different wife and birthplace.
The census is 1901 and Southgate, Middlesex.
His wife is Harriet and her birthplace is Norfolk but has been amended to NORWAY, due to transcription error - but to me it does look like Norfolk.
Clutching at straws here but thought I would run it past you to eliminate.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for you time, Herky.
I got all excited, but sadly that's not my chap. I looked at the 1901 image on FMP - James was born Lowestoft & Harriet at Billingsford Nfk.
I found the same couple in Suffolk in 1891 - same places of birth given, James was a carpenter/joiner, and they had children born pre 1881
They and their children appear in Lowestoft in 1881, with Jame's parents, so defo not my couple.

Jay

[herky]

Hi, I am not surprised that it is not the correct one but thought I would run it past you.
They really have disappeared without a trace.

[Darksecretz]

I have even looked in USA for them, but not spotted anything yet!

spose you have seen this Jay? http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/187...son/1466125362

[Darksecretz]

Jay,

what were James' siblings names by chance..

[herky]

I saw that one when doing my search - I wondered about it - it doesn't have anything after 1881 either.
Perhaps they changed their names for some reason! I have known families to change their names to something completely different.

I love your reindeer Julie - where do you all get these lovely decorations?

[Darksecretz]

Hiya Joyce!

Chrissie gave me this one (Rudy) though you can find lots when you google, but I think he is just lovely :smilee:

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Julie and herky - thanks for your input and help.
I had seen that tree Julie - unfortunately it didn't really help and also it has the wrong bride for the second marriage of James's father.

I have received a suggestion that James may have served in the army.
I have a sub for FMP and have found an army record. He enlisted in 1886 and it seems he served until 1903 - that could explain why we can't find him in 1891 and 1901 census returns.
He was 33 when he enlisted and stated that he was single - I will have to investigate whether his wife had died by then????
Thanks everyone for your interest and input.

Jay

[Darksecretz]

so I guess it would be between 1881-86 then for her death? (if she did die of course) :smilee:

[kylejustin]

where was he then in those intervening years?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

where was he then in those intervening years?

If only I KNEW, Kyle!

Elaine found a reference to him in an 1881 London newspaper. James Gooch was prosecuted for a violent assault in a pub in Lupus St, and was reported to be a former soldier. His excuse was that he was drunk.
Perhaps there's a drink problem or domestic violence and his wife left him??
The former soldier reference is interesting. When James attested in 1886, he said he'd already done 2 previous stints of service - 6 yrs with the Coldstream Gds & 6 yrs with something else. He was 33 in 1886 and joined the Royal Fusiliers, City of London Reg.

The army record says he was discharged in 1903 (he would then have been 50.) The attestation is to join the militia - was this the reserves/TA of the day? There is a record of whether on not he attended the annual training. I think it says militia reserve in 1889 and again in 1893.

It doesn't look as if he had specific postings, so technically, he should have been around for some census returns. However, if he led a nomadic life as a jobbing carpenter, I suppose he could have been anywhere, under any name??
(His father was a ship's carpenter who travelled around, accompanied by his wife & children. The children were born Norwich, Grimsby, Bawtry (Yks) Scotland, Norway, Mundesley Nfk and Devon. James's mother died when he was young and the children seem to have been left in the care of various relatives until father eventually remarried and had a second family. At least 2 of his sisters seem to have led "colourful" lives and a third, a "milliner" just disappeared, along with another brother!)

Jay

[Darksecretz]

I couldnt see any likely deaths Jay for Mary, so maybe she remarried? esp if James had drink issues? what was her fathers name and occ please?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Julie, Mary's father was Francis Bingham and he was a watchmaker.
However he was elderly and probably deceased - in 1871 he and Mary are in a watch & clock makers' asylum in East Barnet and Francis was 77 yrs old. (On the marriage cert it doesn't say Mary's father was deceased, but that doesn't mean he wasn't!)

Mary was born Shoreditch, but in 1881 census she gives St Luke's as pob. As far as I know, she had no middle name. She probably moved in with someone kinder and took another surname, in which case, she would be hard to find.

Please don't spent a lot of time on this - James is NOT a direct ancestor. His mother Phillis was the twin sister of my gt-gt-gdmother, and I'm finding it interesting how several of Phillis's motherless children became "dysfunctional" when they achieved adulthood. The behavioural psychologists would have had a field day with them!

Jay

[Darksecretz]

am not having much luck here, sorry.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for trying, Julie

Jay

[kylejustin]

how interesting james is such a problem! if he is still in england, did you look at barracks etc? he should be there somewhere, especially if he doesn't appear to have posted overseas!