Jockey?

[Tippin]

Hi all,

One of my ancester's was described as a Jockey in 1848, but he died in 1815 (occupation taken from his widow's death certificate). When his daughter married (2nd and 3rd time), she described her father as a Farmer, so I think it must be something agricultural, and not the horse racing type! I have had a look on google, and have found nothing the matches.

Has anyone else come accross a Jockey, and does anybody know what he did??

Many thanks,
Tippin

[margaretmarch]

Are your dates right Tippin?

As regards a jockey I can't think it's anything but horse rider in a race - perhaps he was that and a farmer in his 'day job' - maybe he was focussing on racing when the census was taken??

Margaret

[herky]

Could it be that it related to farming - perhaps a ploughman who was involved with the horses??

[Tippin]

Margaret - Yes the dates are right (well certainly within a year - now that I think about it, Joseph may have been buried in 1814). I just can't believe that he was a horse rider, when his daughter marries second time round, her new husband is a Butcher, as is his father. Third time around her new husband is an Insurance Clerk, so I think she may be making her father into something he isn’t by calling him a Farmer. If he was a Horse Racer, surely she would have just said Jockey. Although, this is just an impression I get, so I may be wrong. I wonder if there is any records relating to horse racer's. I think I will have to look into it just in case.

Herky - That is exactly what I was thinking, but if he was a ploughman, surely the death certificate would just say ploughman. I was wondering if it was an agricultural job that was extremely specialised, but has died out a long time ago! (Or may be its just the local lingo for a ploughman!!)

Many Thanks,
Tippin

[JudithM]

Who was the informant on his widow's death certificate? Maybe they had heard her say her husband had ridden in races and so assumed this was his main job. I would imagine it was quite likely that a farm worker, used to being around horses, might ride in point to point races or be paid to ride in the occasional event by the local racehorse owner.

[Tippin]

Actually, now that I have fought about it, perhaps it was his eldest daughter (who registered her mother's death) that 'bigged up' her father's occupation to Jockey - perhaps he was just a Farmer who happened to work with Horse (like most farmers would, I would imagine), or perhaps kept or sold horses.

Perhaps I have been looking at this all wrong, and he was an ancestor who made something of himself (I admit, I don't have many that did!!). I know that he did not marry into his 40's, so perhaps he was a racer, and only married when it was time to settle down - although I would have imagined that he would have had some money to retire on, and this would have passed on to his wife and children when he died young - but then again perhaps it did, it was so long ago the records have not survived. Or perhaps he was a very bad racer, and in fact won no money to retire on!!!!

Although, just in case it is the local lingo, I should add that Joseph lived and worked at Tanworth-in-Arden in southern Warwickshire, and his widow died in Birmingham, so perhaps somebody may have come across the phrase in their research, and could enlighten me with what it could mean.

Many thanks for the help,
Tippin

Judith - you beat me to it (I was writing out my additional thoughts when you replied!!). I think in hindsight, I will never no for sure (unless he was a fully fledged Jockey, I may be able to find some race results from the late 18th century). Many Thanks, Tippin

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Do not forget the great use of and importance of the horse in the past.
Lots of farmers bred horses and raced them, often riding them themselves. Horse races were often local events, many villages holding them. If you were successful, you may well have been regarded as "a good Jockey/a bit of a jockey."
Also bear in mind that most farmers were tenant farmers. The bulk of the land was in the hands of a tiny majority, who rented it out.

Jay

[Olde Crone Holden]

I agree absolutely with Janet. Many wealthy landowners could afford to keep a jockey or two, as could the wealthier farmers and maybe he made sufficient money at it to take on a farm tenancy himself when he got too old (or too fat!) to be a useful jockey.

Many of my ancestors were farmers. One in particular had a stud farm which was the main business - any crops grown were fodder for the horses and food for the family.

OC

[keldon]

The OED has one definition for a jockey as "One who manages or has to do with horses; one who deals in horses, a horse-dealer." (cites sources from 1640 to 1841.

See also this on Google Books
"By a jockey the people of the midland counties in parlance do not mean as the term more usually signifies a rider at races but a horse dealer a horse jockey "

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nRMOAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA81&dq=jockey+horse+dealer&hl=en&ei=aqbfTsveDoaz8QPR46XoBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CGIQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=jockey%20horse%20dealer&f=false

"When I came to Smithfield I stopped awhile for a horse jockey was selling a horse to a young gentleman who appeared to me to have far more money in his pocket than judgment or discretion in his upper story The gentleman seemed dis osed to fancy a black horse but the jockey egan to puff off a brown one and talked so much of thorough bred courage spirit to the back bone high action sure footed fast going free from vice quiet as a lamb and fifty other puffing phrases that I thought to myself Ay ay Mr Horse dealer these highflying terms are your toppers and will enable you no doubt to get rid of your brown horse "

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7QQbAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA14&dq=horse+dealer+jockey&hl=en&ei=_67fTsuDBtDD8QPgwNTLBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBDiqAQ#v=onepage&q=horse%20dealer%20jockey&f=false

Several other references also on Google books.

[Tippin]

Hi all,

Thanks very much for your comments - it has given me a lot to think about!!

at least I can say with some certainty that he worked with horses (in some form or another).

Many thanks,
Tippin