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  • Boulter, Waters or Walters?

    I'm afraid you will have to bare with me on this one as it gets complicated.

    My great great grandmother is Mary Ann BOULTER. My grandmother is involved in our research of the family tree and Mary Ann is her grandmother. Nan is in her 70's and Mary Ann died in 1921 so my Nan never met her. In the initial stages when we were discussing names etc.. my Nan said her grandmother (and her family) were all WATERS' and BOULTER never came into it.
    This line were extremely difficult to tie down because it appears they used BOULTER, WATERS and WALTERS on Census returns... I will explain.

    The first BOULTER I know of at the moment is my 4x great Grandfather, Thomas BOULTER. He was born anywhere between 1822 and 1831 in either Newbridge-on-Wye or Buallt, Radnorshire. Thomas has a brother, William who was born in 1821. In the 1st quarter of 1851 (before the census) he married Mary DANIEL.

    On the 1851 census:

    98 Hall Street, Victoria, Monmouthshire
    HO107 piece 2448 folio 604 page 5


    William WALTERS, head, 30, coal miner ironworks, Radnor Newbridge
    Amelia WALTERS, wife, 30, Somerset Newton
    William WALTERS, son, 7, Mon Bedwellty
    Sarah WALTERS, dau, 1, Brecknock Llanelly
    Thomas WALTERS, bro, 25, coal miner ironworks, Radnor Newbridge
    Mary WALTERS, sister in law, 19, Mon Varteg
    George NICHOLAS, Lodger, 18, coal miner ironworks, Somerset

    William BOULTER married Amelia MERCHANT in 4th quarter of 1842 in Pontypool.
    Thomas BOULTER married Mary DANIEL in 1st quarter of 1851 in Bedwellty.


    In the 1861 Census:

    22 Wain Row, Victoria, Mon
    RG09 piece 4004 folio 23 page 6


    Thomas BOULTER, head, 30, collier, glamorgan newbury
    Mary BOULTER, wife, 20, monmouthshire varteg
    William BOULTER, son, 7, scholar, monmouthshire
    Emma BOULTER, dau, 5, scholar, monmouthshire
    Jackob BOULTER, son, 1, monmouthshire
    <<< my 3x great grandfather

    William BOULTER was reg in 1st quarter of 1854 in Bedwellty
    Emma BOULTER was reg in 1st quarter of 1856 in Bedwellty
    Jacob BOULTER was born on 24 Jan 1860 in Waynes Row, Victoria


    On 1871 census:

    13 New Wain's Row, Victoria, Mon
    RG10 piece 5326 folio 62 page 10 & 11


    Thomas WALTERS, head, 49, coal miner, brecknock buallt
    Mary WALTERS, wife, 40, monmouth varteg
    William WALTER, son, 17, coal miner, monmouth victoria
    Emma WALTER, dau, 15, monmouth victoria
    Jacob WALTER, son, 12, doorkeeper in pit, monmouth victoria
    Thomas WALTER, son, 9, scholar, monmouth victoria
    Sarah WALTER, dau, 7, scholar, monmouth victoria
    Mary Ann WALTER, dau, 5, scholar, monmouth victoria
    Joseph WALTER, son, 1, monmouth victoria
    Hannah WALTERS, dau, 7, scholar, monmouth victoria


    Hannah BOULTER was reg in 2nd quarter 1864 in Bedwellty
    Sarah BOULTER was reg in 1st quarter 1866 in Bedwellty
    Mary Ann BOULTER was reg in 1st quarter 1868 in Bed
    Joseph BOULTER was reg in 2nd quarter 1870 in Bed

    On 1881 Census:

    40 Hall Street, Victoria, Mon
    RG11 piece 5247 folio 8 page 10 & 11



    Thomas WATERS, head, 56, coal miner, radnorshire newbridge
    Mary WATERS, wife, 49, monmouthshire abersychan
    Thomas WATERS, son, 16, coal miner, monmouthshire bedwellty
    Sarah WATERS, dau, 14, scholar, monmouthshire bedwellty
    Mary Ann WATERS, dau, 12, scholar, monmouthshire bedwellty
    Joseph WATERS, son, 10, scholar, monmouthshire bedwellty
    Sophia WATERS, dau, 8, scholar, monmouthshire bedwellty


    Sophia BOULTER was reg in 2nd quarter of 1873 in bedwellty.

    Thomas died in 4th quarter of 1884 and I can't find his wife, Mary on following census returns...

    Due to the amount of info I'll add another post to this thread...
    Last edited by Darksecretz; 07-12-11, 17:56. Reason: adding census hyperlinks

  • #2
    Beth

    does your gran have her grans death cert? and could Boulter be misheard as Walter/s?
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


    • #3
      Sorry... the little one decided to have a tantrum... I'll get the other post up soon...

      We don't have Mary Ann's death cert.. I would imagine they could be misheard. Trouble is... that 2 of the girls (that I know of) went into service and on the census at their employment address they are Walters.

      The only one possible civil registration that isn't BOULTER is the death of Hannah in 4th quarter of 1886. Her death was reg under WALTERS.

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe Mary remarried?

        Marriages Mar 1890, Bedwelty, 11a/142. Mary Boulter and also indexed George Brain.

        1891 census, Bedwelty, RG12; Piece: 4358; Folio 117; Page 4

        George Brain 40
        Mary Brain 59, VARTEG
        John Brain 16
        Thomas Crowley 11
        Mary H Brain 9
        Francis Brain 7
        Samuel Brain 3

        Comment


        • #5
          A Thomas Walters, his wife Elizabeth and children are livng next door to the Brains', Thomas born Victoria (Mary's son perhaps?)

          Comment


          • #6
            do you know what year Mary Ann was born Beth?
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              1901, Bedwelty. RG13; Piece: 4941; Folio: 53; Page: 19.

              Thomas Walters Boulter 46
              Elize Boulter 47
              Richard Boulter 20
              William Jno Boulter 16
              David Boulter 13
              William Weaver 28
              Mary Ann James 58
              Mary James 25
              James James 13

              Comment


              • #8
                From GRO death index, Bedwelty, Oct-Dec 1882, 11a/76.

                Amelia Walters Boulter, age at death 0

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                  do you know what year Mary Ann was born Beth?
                  Mary Ann was born 11 Nov 1883...

                  I'm sorry I haven't gotten around to posting the rest of the query but things are a little hectic here.

                  What possible reasons would there be for the variations in names?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by susan h View Post
                    Maybe Mary remarried?

                    Marriages Mar 1890, Bedwelty, 11a/142. Mary Boulter and also indexed George Brain.

                    1891 census, Bedwelty, RG12; Piece: 4358; Folio 117; Page 4

                    George Brain 40
                    Mary Brain 59, VARTEG
                    John Brain 16
                    Thomas Crowley 11
                    Mary H Brain 9
                    Francis Brain 7
                    Samuel Brain 3
                    I have this one down... and wouldn't be surprised... ;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have this twice in my tree, where a family wobbles about from name to name before eventually settling on one name for ever.

                      One: The parents weren't married, so the children used either surname, or rather, whichever official was recording them gave them the surname he THOUGHT they should be using.

                      Two: (and this took some working out!) there were two men with identical names, born within a few weeks of each other, in the same very small area, with fathers and mothers who had the same names. What's more, both families were painters and decorators. One eventually decided to use his mother's maiden name, presumably to distinguish his family business from the other one, especially as the other one went bankrupt!

                      I should think in your case, reason one is most likely - the parents weren't married and some old busybody knew that, so "corrected" the surname on the census, or vice versa.

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                        I have this twice in my tree, where a family wobbles about from name to name before eventually settling on one name for ever.

                        One: The parents weren't married, so the children used either surname, or rather, whichever official was recording them gave them the surname he THOUGHT they should be using.

                        I should think in your case, reason one is most likely - the parents weren't married and some old busybody knew that, so "corrected" the surname on the census, or vice versa.

                        OC
                        I did think of that... but I've yet to find a Walters/Waters link with the family... The to-ing and fro-ing carries on with my 3x great grandfather, Jacob... He was Boulter in 1891, Boulter in 1901 and Waters in 1911...

                        :s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Might be total and utter co-incidence, but my great great grandad was a Bowkett and changed his name to Walters
                          Robyne


                          Name interests: Alderton, Osborne, Danslow, Hanley, Bowkett, Lakin, Elliott, Banner, Walters, Reed, Deighton, Sleight, Dungar ;)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                            I have this twice in my tree, where a family wobbles about from name to name before eventually settling on one name for ever.

                            One: The parents weren't married, so the children used either surname, or rather, whichever official was recording them gave them the surname he THOUGHT they should be using.

                            Two: (and this took some working out!) there were two men with identical names, born within a few weeks of each other, in the same very small area, with fathers and mothers who had the same names. What's more, both families were painters and decorators. One eventually decided to use his mother's maiden name, presumably to distinguish his family business from the other one, especially as the other one went bankrupt!

                            I should think in your case, reason one is most likely - the parents weren't married and some old busybody knew that, so "corrected" the surname on the census, or vice versa.

                            OC
                            I have a similar 'wobble' on my tree. An illegit child, James S L, was born to Charlotte L, who registered him with his father's name as a middle name. The child appeared in 1851, under his mother's name, living with granny. Charlotte was working for a widowed publican and subsequently married him. The publican died a year later. Move on one more year...Charlotte married the child's father and on all succeeding censuses, the child uses only the father's name S, as did his own children, until the 1911 census, when they all suddenly reverted to being 'S Ls'.

                            However, whenever there was a marriage, death, birth registration in the family, they are all described as being 'L' , as is the current generation.

                            My theory is that they were known as 'S' on the censuses to avoid the stigma of illegitimacy in the neighbourhood, but because the child was originally registered as 'L', they felt they would be breaking the law if they filled out official documents using 'S'.

                            Incidentally, the current generation is not at all pleased with my 'explanation', despite the evidence of identical addresses on census returns and marriage certs :(

                            Beverley



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've now got the marriage cert of Thomas Boulter & Mary Daniel...

                              I've located the Daniel's in 1841 & 1851..

                              But I'm struggling with the Boulter's...

                              Thomas married Mary at Tredegar in the parish of Bedwellty on 3 Mar 1851.

                              Thomas Boulter, of full age, bachelor, collier, Victoria, Richard Boulter, labourer
                              Mary Daniel, of full age, spinster, victoria, Jacob Daniel, filler(?)

                              Any eyes would be appreciated... the Daniel's were in Breconshire in 1841. Thomas was born in Radnorshire. And they were married in Monmouthshire.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I think I have found Richard in 51 Beth, says he was born in Hereford! (but in Builth) for 51



                                1851: Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2488; Folio: 266; Page: 23; GSU roll: 104248.

                                not having much luck atmo in 41 though.
                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  and in 61 in Old Radnor says he is a widow.



                                  Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 4229; Folio: 5; Page: 4; GSU roll: 543253
                                  Julie
                                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                  .......I find dead people

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    and his death

                                    Name: Richard Boulter
                                    Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1865
                                    Registration district: Builth
                                    Inferred County: Breconshire
                                    Volume: 11b
                                    Page: 75
                                    Julie
                                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                    .......I find dead people

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      In 1861 Sister in Law Amelia (wife of brother William) & children are in Bedwelty, recorded as Boulton

                                      piece 4004 folio 22 page 4

                                      In 1871 she's back to Waters!
                                      (piece 5326 folio 59 page 3)

                                      Jay
                                      Janet in Yorkshire



                                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Here's a Richard Boulter in Old Radnor in 1841

                                        (piece 1459, book/folio 9/11, page 16)

                                        If this is the one, looks like there's a Price connection???? Perhaps Mrs Boulter was formerly Price, nee Walters?????

                                        Jay
                                        Janet in Yorkshire



                                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                        Comment

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