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  • Lawrence Winters

    Hi all,
    I am trying to find Lawrence Winters on any census but without any luck so far. I also cannot find a birth record for him and have a feeling he may have been born in Ireland (but not sure of this).

    Here is what I have so far:

    Lawrence Winters b. Abt 1799 (father’s name Barnaby Winters).Lawrence married: Sarah Ann Grummitt in 1857 in the Catholic Chapel in Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire. He died aged 84 in 1883 in Melton and was buried at St Mary’s church Melton. On his burial record it says his abode was: Bridwell yard (His name is spelt Laurence on this record). He worked as a Drover.
    His wife Sarah was born in abt 1826 in Boston, Lincolnshire. Sarah is on the 1871 Melton Mowbray census with three of their children but no sign of Lawrence.
    I cannot find Lawrence or Sarah in the 1861 census....I was hoping it may tell me where he was born. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you

    Last edited by jadzia; 20-08-13, 04:58.
    Ness

  • #2
    Hi jadzia

    Think I may have found Sarah Ann with 3 of her children, but unfortunatly still no sign of her husband Lawrence. I supposed if he was a drover he managed to avoid the censuses.

    ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1861&indiv=try&h=21817841

    Wanda

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    • #3
      Hi Wanda,

      Thank you for your help...I tried the site address you gave but it still won't show me the page (don't know what i'm doing wrong) Could you give me anymore information plaese? Thank you


      EDIT: Ah yes I've found Sarah and the children in 1861 thank you Wanda, but as you say no sign of Lawrence......
      Last edited by jadzia; 23-11-11, 22:20. Reason: Added a bit
      Ness

      Comment


      • #4
        Was he really 58 when he married for the first time, or is Sarah his second wife?

        OC

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        • #5
          Hi OC,

          That's a very good point...one which I hadn't noticed :o Lawrences marriage to Sarah was definitely in 1857 but I have no idea if Sarah was his second wife or not. I have just noticed that Lawrences first child Matthew was born in abt 1855 though, so maybe he was born before the marriage or maybe Sarah was his stepmother. Matthew was born in Market Harborough, Leicestershire (according to the census's) I can't find a birth record for him either. Thank you for your help.
          Last edited by jadzia; 24-11-11, 01:12.
          Ness

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          • #6
            wonder if this is Matthews Birth

            Winter Male (unnamed) Jun quarter 1857 7A 146 Barrow upon Soar Leicestershire

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Val,

              Thank you for your help...I did wonder about that one but Lawrence's second child was born in 1857 and was a girl so I don't think that was him.

              Ness

              Comment


              • #8
                Was Matthew definitely Lawrence's? Perhaps he belonged to Sarah?

                Sorry if you've mentioned it, I just thought it would be a possibility.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by FamilyHistoryStories View Post
                  Was Matthew definitely Lawrence's? Perhaps he belonged to Sarah?

                  Sorry if you've mentioned it, I just thought it would be a possibility.
                  I don’t have any proof that Matthew was Lawrence’s bit I have also searched for a birth for Matthew with his mother’s maiden name but no luck :(.

                  I now have Lawrence’s marriage & death certs.....Ummm something doesn’t add up!

                  The death cert is definitely for my Lawrence as the informant is his wife Sarah Ann it confirms he died in 1883 at the age of 84 so his birth would have been around 1799...But as OC pointed out if his marriage to Sarah took place in 1857 he would have been 58 at the time of the marriage,(their wedding cert says he was a bachelor and she was a spinster). I know some people lied about their ages on certs but it looks to me like it says he was 39 and sarah was 35.... it's a pretty big jump from 39 to 58




                  Last edited by jadzia; 28-11-11, 23:20.
                  Ness

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Vanessa - I haven't come across the ages being written like that before on any of my many marriage certs. Usually it is just Full Age once they are over 21
                    so at least it looks fairly definite.

                    Whereabouts in the UK were they married, and where were they living when Lawrence died? The place names may help us.

                    A agree that as a drover he may well have been traipsing around the country, especially as Sarah states she is Head of the house in the 1871 census.
                    If he had been close by she would posssibly have included his name and put him as the Head of the household and herself as his wife. so it looks as though he was gone for a while.
                    I see that Ellen was born in Nottingham which is a fair way from Melton Mowbray, I wonder what they were doing up there.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've just been looking at a family where hubby was in lodgings in London in 1881 (on a sales trip for Sunderland lustre-ware, I suspect). Wife at home with the children describes herself as Head's wife.
                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                      • #12
                        Hi Val,

                        Lawrence and Sarah were married in Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire and he still lived there when he died. I have no idea why they were in Nottingham when Ellen was born. It's just my luck Lawrence went into hiding when it was census time :D


                        Ness

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                        • #13
                          Have you found them in 1881? There is a sarah winter in Nottingham, age 65, with a husband James age 82. Did Laurence have a middle name? This James Winter was born in 1799 in Stockton on tees Durham. Sarah was born Farndon, Nottingham. I can't actually find a Laurence that fits

                          Darannon

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                          • #14
                            Or is there any possibility that "84" should actually be "64"... 6 and 8 being quite similar in shape, as digits.

                            Christine
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I can't help in finding Laurence but here are Sarah and the two younger children in 1881. RG11 piece 3182 folio 78 page 12
                              They were living in Leicester Street Melton Mowbray. Sarah was listed by her middle name Ann Winter, Head, married, aged 61 charwoman born Boston. The children listed as Nellie aged 19 and William aged 13, both born Melton Mowbray.
                              Last edited by JudithM; 30-11-11, 17:15.
                              Judith passed away in October 2018

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thank you Darannon, Christine and Judith......

                                Darannon no middle name was on Lawrence's marriage or death certs.

                                Christine there was a mistake made on the death cert but it is definately an 8....



                                Thank you so much Judith I spent so long looking for that last night but still never found it. They had a daughter who is on her birth certificate as Ann who sometimes goes by the name of Sarah and now Sarah is using her middle name of Ann....no wonder I can't find them! :p

                                Thank you all I really appreciate your help
                                Ness

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                                • #17
                                  I think I might have found Sarah and three children in 1861 but still no Lawrence.

                                  Piece: 2351 Folio:70 Page:7 Registration District: Grantham

                                  Sorry, I can see you already have 1861, think I'm half asleep!!!
                                  Last edited by Breckland Jane; 30-11-11, 20:50.

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                                  • #18
                                    Thank you Jane....I now have Sarah in 1841, 1861, 1871, 1881 but NOT in 1851, 1891 or 1901 (she was married in 1857 and she died in 1906 I have both of these records) so far still no census's for Lawrence just marriage and death records I think he must have been shy :D

                                    :D Jane thank you for your help i'm about ready for a strong coffee with this lot :D
                                    Last edited by jadzia; 30-11-11, 21:06.
                                    Ness

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      1891 - age is wrong but must be her:
                                      RG12 piece 2544 folio 89 page 32
                                      Melton Mowbray 31 Timber Hill - living on her own
                                      Sara A Winter Head Widow 78 Rag and Bone Collector Boston Lincolnshire
                                      Judith passed away in October 2018

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        And in 1901
                                        RG13 piece 3011 folio 49 page 17
                                        Melton Mowbray 4 Wyvern Terrace
                                        Sarah Winter visitor widow aged 81 born Lincs Boston
                                        She was visitor in the household of Henry Ward aged 47 born Sleaford and his wife Mary A Ward aged 45 born Melton Mowbray.
                                        Judith passed away in October 2018

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