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Parish Record vs Civil Reg

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  • Parish Record vs Civil Reg

    Does anyone know how information for Civil Registration records in England was collected? I'm most interested in its early days, say, 1837-1880s.

    For instance, if the parish record recorded that the bride's father's occupation was deceased, will that also be the information recorded on the Civil Reg?

    Thanks
    Sarah

  • #2
    In the early years the Registrar has to travel round his district, as required, registering the events. It was his responsibility to make himself aware of births, deaths and marriages and visit to record the details.

    The 1836 Act section XVIII states as follows-

    "...and every Registrar shall be authorized and is hereby required to inform himself carefully of every Birth and every Death which shall happen within his District after the said First Day of March, and to learn and register soon after the Event as conveniently may be done, without Fee or Reward save as herein-after mentioned, in One of the said Books, the Particulars required to be registered according to the Forms in the said Schedules (A.) and (B.) respectively touching every such Birth or every such Death, as the Case may be, which shall not have been already registered, every such Entry being made in Order from the Beginning to the End of the Book."

    The full Act is on my Acts of Parliament website at


    After 1874 the duty to register changed from being the responsibility of the registrar to the responsibility of the parents, householder etc.
    Cheers
    Guy
    Guy passed away October 2022

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    • #3
      If we are talking about marriages, then the parish record and the civil registration ought to be identical - the Vicar sent a copy of the marriage register to the Registrar. Quite often they aren't identical though - I know this from personal experience. The differences are usually down to mistranscription of information taken from one source by different people.

      Deceased fathers on marriage certs are notoriously tricky and the only way you can absolutely know the father was dead is if you have his death certificate. Otherwise he may have been alive (but not liked) alive (but disapproved of the wedding) or dead (but the Vicar/Registrar didn't ask) or was unknown (but the bride/groom made up a dead father for respectability's sake).

      OC

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
        If we are talking about marriages, then the parish record and the civil registration ought to be identical - the Vicar sent a copy of the marriage register to the Registrar. Quite often they aren't identical though - I know this from personal experience. The differences are usually down to mistranscription of information taken from one source by different people.

        Deceased fathers on marriage certs are notoriously tricky and the only way you can absolutely know the father was dead is if you have his death certificate. Otherwise he may have been alive (but not liked) alive (but disapproved of the wedding) or dead (but the Vicar/Registrar didn't ask) or was unknown (but the bride/groom made up a dead father for respectability's sake).

        OC
        Perhaps I should make it clear, they will only be identical if the marriage took place in the parish church.

        The Parish Registers will not show Civil Marriages and may not show Non-Conformist marriages and almost certainly will not show Catholic Marriages after 1836.
        Cheers
        Guy
        Guy passed away October 2022

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        • #5
          So, if the parish register for a marriage in a Church of England church shows that the father's occupation is "deceased" then the Civil Reg is most likely to show the same occupation? The easiest way to distinguish my Mitchells is by their occupation!

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          • #6
            And thanks for sharing your knowledge, Guy & OC

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            • #7
              Guy

              Sarah did say she was looking at the parish record!

              Sarah

              Yes, if you are looking at a C of E marriage then the information given to the vicar at the time of the marriage will have been passed on exactly, to the Registrar. Or at least, it SHOULD have been passed on exactly......

              OC
              Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 22-11-11, 18:31. Reason: Afterthought

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              • #8
                but wasn't always passed on (or re-copied exactly)for C of E. I have one case where the middle name of my g grndfather is wrong but everything else is right
                CAROLE : "A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK"

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                • #9
                  Thanks, all. So, I think I read: CofE records were transcribed into Civil Reg records without additional info that wasn't already in the PR. There were, however, sometimes transcription errors.

                  All of which means, there's no need to order the Marriage cert, as it will not have the father's actual occupation.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                    Thanks, all. So, I think I read: CofE records were transcribed into Civil Reg records without additional info that wasn't already in the PR. There were, however, sometimes transcription errors.

                    All of which means, there's no need to order the Marriage cert, as it will not have the father's actual occupation.
                    No, but probably due to the wrong use of terminology.

                    CoE records include Parish Registers but also include a wealth of other records including Banns Books, Marriage Allegation, etc.
                    If the marriage took place in a CoE church or chapel then the entry in the Parish Register will be copied (at the end of the relevant quarter) to the Superintendent Registrar (who will in turn each quarter forward the copies to the GRO).

                    When the Marriage Registers are filled one Marriage Register will be forwarded to the Superintendent Registrar the other will be retained by the church.

                    This in effect means that in the Superintendent Registrar may, until the Marriage Register has been filled, hold copies of the entries that have been wrongly transcribed.
                    This situation should rectify itself when the Superintendent Registrar receives the duplicate Marriage Register (the GRO never receive an actual copy of the filled register).
                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Guy passed away October 2022

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                    • #11
                      And it could take a year or a century for a marriage register to be filled.
                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                      • #12
                        I have said before, that I have three copies of the same marriage.

                        1. A direct photocopy of the church register.
                        2. A direct (modern) photocopy of the entry received by the LOCAL Registrar.
                        3. A modern handwritten copy from the GRO.

                        These are so markedly different that you would hardly believe it was the same couple getting married. Only the fact that I reeived the three copies over a number of years allowed me to absorb and explain the mistakes. The GRO copy has the most mistakes, including transposing the fathers (a glaringly obvious mistake, but nevertheless, its glaring-ness means the GRO should have spotted this mistake before they sent out the copy!) and transposing the addresses of bride and groom.

                        My point being - you never know what will be on a certificate until you get it, nor what mistakes/omissions it might contain!

                        OC

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                        • #13
                          Thanks, OC & Guy, for sharing your expertise

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