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  • surnames not added

    beware ancesty's indexing. *sigh* again! i have been looking in the west yorkshire records, for burials i know are in there! i decided the surname was mistranscribed, so just went by forename, year and parish. lo and behold, no surnames! i've just added transcript changes, so thought it would be a good idea to warn others in case you are having trouble!

  • #2
    Yes, Kyle, I've fallen in that trap too. There a LOADS of people entered in the index with no surnames. Usually along the lines of Ellen wife of John Smith buried. They have indexed her as Ellen and not Ellen Smith. Bonkers!

    Anne

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    • #3
      Have found that works quite well on census, especially when the surnames have been mis transcribed. Don't always know what the alternatives may have
      put enteres as.
      Whoever said Seek and Ye shall find was not a genealogist.

      David

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Anne in Carlisle View Post
        Yes, Kyle, I've fallen in that trap too. There a LOADS of people entered in the index with no surnames. Usually along the lines of Ellen wife of John Smith buried. They have indexed her as Ellen and not Ellen Smith. Bonkers!

        Anne
        Not bonkers simply accurate.
        Not all women take the surname of their husband on marriage.
        In Scotland for example it was quite common for women to retain their maiden surname.
        Cheers
        Guy
        Guy passed away October 2022

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Guy View Post
          Not bonkers simply accurate.
          Not all women take the surname of their husband on marriage.
          In Scotland for example it was quite common for women to retain their maiden surname.
          Cheers
          Guy
          So long as "Ellen" appears in the firstname field, not the surname!
          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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          • #6
            Guy - yes I know its accurate but its very unhelpful as part of an index. One can lose the will to live searching for Elizabeth with no surname! Even indexing as Elizabeth (Smith) or maybe Elizabeth Smith? would help track a burial down and then, on viewing the image one could decide for oneself.

            Anyway if she was Elizabeth Watt, wife of John Smith she would be indexed as Elizabeth Watt.

            Anne

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            • #7
              Not if the document being referenced only named her as Elizabeth wife of John Smith, guessing a surname to add would throw researchers off the correct line.

              I sometimes despair that modern researchers simply want to collate results rather than actually research. ;)

              In the case given Elizabeth may have died years after John Smith and could have been living with another man under an assumed name.
              However her children could have buried her under their name (I have knowledge of proven instances of this happening).

              If the burial record only gives the forename it would be completely wrong to invent a surname just because it may fit and may help “researchers”.
              Cheers
              Guy
              Guy passed away October 2022

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              • #8
                So, Guy. What would you do if on searching through a burial book (as I have done in Archives for many, many, many hours) you came across the burial of
                Elizabeth, wife of John Smith buried.
                I assume you would disregard her because she could have been any old person. Or would you, perhaps, as I do, mark her down as possibly the person you are looking for? The fact that she may have been living with another person under an assumed name does not mean she has turned into someone else!

                I would never ever use the index as the source of my research. The index is a very helpful means of accessing the pairsh record images on Ancestry and its what I pay my annual sub for. They could have put the images on-line without an index, of course, and then we would all have to search through as one normally does if one has access to the actual burial books. Sadly I live too far away to be a regular visitor at the Archives where my family's records are kept, much as I enjoy every minute spent there when I can get.

                Anne

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                • #9
                  hmm yes, even though it may state 'elizabeth, wife of john smith buried' in the english parish registers, the inference is still her surname was 'smith' at death. the inference in any registers would be her name was 'elizabeth smith'. if it was a french document, it would be 'elisabeth dubois veuve/epuose de jean montmartel'. elisabeth dubois widow/wife of jean montmartel. the evidence being, whatever surname she has in the record is the one she was known by and buried with.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Anne in Carlisle View Post
                    So, Guy. What would you do if on searching through a burial book (as I have done in Archives for many, many, many hours) you came across the burial of
                    Elizabeth, wife of John Smith buried.
                    I assume you would disregard her because she could have been any old person. Or would you, perhaps, as I do, mark her down as possibly the person you are looking for? The fact that she may have been living with another person under an assumed name does not mean she has turned into someone else!

                    I would never ever use the index as the source of my research. The index is a very helpful means of accessing the pairsh record images on Ancestry and its what I pay my annual sub for. They could have put the images on-line without an index, of course, and then we would all have to search through as one normally does if one has access to the actual burial books. Sadly I live too far away to be a regular visitor at the Archives where my family's records are kept, much as I enjoy every minute spent there when I can get.

                    Anne
                    You assume wrong!

                    If you mean by a burial book a burial register then first I would check to see if the archives held the burial plot book (lair book).

                    I would also check the burial register for other Smiths buried ten years either side to see how many Smiths had been buried in that churchyard and how many John Smiths there were.
                    Having done that I would draw up a plan of action to eliminate the possibilities one by one.

                    Then I would visit the church (if possible) and see if they had a plot book for that period of time and also check to see tombstones existed.

                    After that I would, if I had not already got it search for the marriage in either the parish or civil registers.
                    I would also try to find out as much as I could about what happened to her after the death of her husband.
                    Did they have children, if so how old were they?
                    What were the ages of the people involved?
                    If the children were young did they stay with their mother?
                    If the children were older did she stay with one of them or did she live on her own or even in the home she shared with her husband?

                    Finding a reference such as "Elizabeth, wife of John Smith buried. " would be the start of a series of research tasks to discover more about Elizabeth. It would not be the end of the search but rather the start of a new avenue of research, in much the same way as finding any other name in a family history.
                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Guy passed away October 2022

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Finding a reference such as "Elizabeth, wife of John Smith buried. " would be the start of a series of research tasks to discover more about Elizabeth. It would not be the end of the search but rather the start of a new avenue of research, in much the same way as finding any other name in a family history.

                      I don't believe I said anything about it being the end! I said I would mark her down as being possibly the person I was looking for. In other words just what you would do!

                      Anne

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