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abit of help to unravel this please..

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  • abit of help to unravel this please..

    now bear with me as this is abit confusing...

    I have Frances Nicks MIDDLETON b. 1813 Upottery Devon (Nicks is mostly mistrans as NEX)

    I have her in the Census:

    1841:http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...718&recoff=6+7
    Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 255; Book: 8; Civil Parish: Tiverton; County: Devon; Enumeration District: 15; Folio: 4; Page: 3; Line: 12; GSU roll: 241325.

    1851:http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...=try&h=6693437
    Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1878; Folio: 72; Page: 32; GSU roll: 221026.

    William Burgers 34 (this should be BURGESS) occ Minister. b. 1817 Darsham suffolk (says he is married)
    Charles Stoodly 72 occ GENTLEMAN
    Eliza Burgers 6 (Daughter) b. 1845 Leeds Yorks
    Frances Middleton 38 b. 1813 upottery devon occ Housekeeper
    Fanny Henley 16 servant
    Elizabeth Middleton 1 b. 1850 plymouth devon (housekeepers daughter)

    now William BURGESS marries Frances NEX MIDDLETON in London, in 1852 (have cert) gives his occupation as MILLER and he states WIDOW.



    1861: NOT FOUND

    1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...ki1871&indiv=1
    Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 882; Folio: 55; Page: 22; GSU roll: 823478.

    William Burgers 55 occ now Estate Agent
    Thanos Burgers 59 no occ given (Frances)
    Sarah Burgers 13 daughter (scholar) b. London Pimlico.

    1881:http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...ki1881&indiv=1
    Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 863; Folio: 113; Page: 3; GSU roll: 1341204.

    Frances Nex. Burgess 68 widow- Gentlewoman
    Ephraim Charles Hindley Burgess 26 (Hindley is WRONG it should read STEEDLEY) b. st geo hanover sq
    Sarah Hannah Hamsboro Burgess 22 b. st geo hanover sq
    Arthur Simeon Helwig Burgess G/Nephew aged 9

    1891: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...&rhSource=7572
    Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 680; Folio 108; Page 48; GSU roll: 6095790.

    Frances N Burgess 72 no occ
    Sarah H H C Burgess 30 Type writer.

    what I would like is:
    a) to find them in 1861
    b) figure out what happened to Elizabeth Middleton from the 1851 cens
    c) what happened to Eliza Burgess (presumably the child Arthur Simeon belongs to her) I have not found William BURGESS in 1841 so do not know if he had any other children aside from Eliza.

    sorry for the really long post but I needed to put it all in one place to make sense of it. also Ephraim Charles Steedly Not sure if he was named after the Charles STOODLY that was the gentleman in the 1851 with them or what. I do know that Ephraim Charles dies in 1890 though. Frances dies in 1894 in Maidstone Kent.
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

  • #2
    Sorry - looking but not finding!
    herky
    Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

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    • #3
      makes two of us then Herky!!
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #4
        Don't you think that Charles Stoodley is probably Charles Steedley?

        Also - Minister to Miller to Estate Agent seems rather odd, to say the least. Looking at the marriage cert i did wonder if it said "butler" and nor miller, but i can't blow it up enough to see. If it was butler, then i reckon in 51 he was a Manservt, not a minister.

        I don't have access to ancestry to look, so apologies if I'm talking dire bilge.

        OC

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        • #5
          OC

          I dont know!! Charles Stoodly/Steedly whatever his face is I have no idea, I havent even attempted to look for him, Yet!

          Now I did think about the occupations being very random, but, the marriage cert is deffo the one.. I did wonder if whoever made an error when writing out the census, like you say the changes dont even seem to be logical.. havent got a scooby doo atmo. I know that some of you dont have ancestry which is why I included the transcripts as well, (I have got the images saved too)

          1851 cens:
          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

          Comment


          • #6
            hmmmn

            death

            Name: Charles Stoodly
            Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1852
            Registration district: Plymouth
            Inferred County: Devonshire
            Volume: 5b
            Page: 201
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              Looking at Arthur Simeon Helwig Burgess

              I think this is his birth

              Arthur Simeon HELWIG Q/E June 1872 Marylebone

              and then marriage May 1896 to Emily Gertrude Garnham. Father given as Arthur Helwig deceased, engineer



              This could be his parents' marriage

              26th January 1871 Arthur HELWIG engineer (father Henry Helwig, dyer) and Emily PRICHARD (father William Davis Prichard gentleman)



              It looks as though his mother, Emily HELWIG died in 1877. There's a probate entry for her - administration wasn't granted until 1885 - but would explain why the son Arthur Simeon was living with Frances Burgess in 1881. I don't know which of his parents was related to the Burgesses
              Jackie

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              • #8
                hmmm thats odd Jackie.. but interesting all the same, this family are quite confusing to say the least. I wonder where they fit in
                ??
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have one or two rellies with the occasional census description of "minister" - turned out they were Primitive Methodists who served as lay readers. As this was not a source of income, they also had a "proper job," which was recorded in census: e.g. butcher/bacon factor & carrier/shopkeeper/grocer.
                  So, perhaps your minister was a member of a non-con denomination???

                  Jay
                  Janet in Yorkshire



                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                  • #10
                    still not having any luck finding them in 1861, they have to be there somewhere, ahhhh maybe they are in the missing bits? in london, thats where Sarah is said to be born, I am also now having doubts about the 1871 cens but can't see a suitable candidate other than what I already have.
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                      I have one or two rellies with the occasional census description of "minister" - turned out they were Primitive Methodists who served as lay readers. As this was not a source of income, they also had a "proper job," which was recorded in census: e.g. butcher/bacon factor & carrier/shopkeeper/grocer.
                      So, perhaps your minister was a member of a non-con denomination???

                      Jay
                      oo that certainly might explain things Jay, I have just been looking to see if I can spot them either in 1861 or William in 1841, not having much luck though I have just this minute found Williams Baptism
                      Julie
                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                      .......I find dead people

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have an ancestor with a similar range of occupations - baptist minister/ preacher, clerk to the estate agent, and wheelwright. In his case he was a lay preacher in the baptist church but earned his living working for the land agent at the local big estate (not an estate agent in the modern sense of the word). The wheelwright's was a family business which I am sure he would have worked in, and later inherited.
                        Judith passed away in October 2018

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                          I have an ancestor with a similar range of occupations - baptist minister/ preacher, clerk to the estate agent, and wheelwright. In his case he was a lay preacher in the baptist church but earned his living working for the land agent at the local big estate (not an estate agent in the modern sense of the word). The wheelwright's was a family business which I am sure he would have worked in, and later inherited.
                          hmm thats also interesting Judith, so its not entirely impossible that they are all one and the same chap, I was beginning to seriously doubt my findings, I just wish I could find them in 1861, it would certainly help clarify things.
                          Julie
                          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                          .......I find dead people

                          Comment

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