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"From the Tower Liberty"

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  • "From the Tower Liberty"

    Just doing a bit of work on my tree to keep my mind occupied Going through my ancestry list to see which names have waving leaves on and following them up. Hence I got to work on my Smith family :( William Webb Smith is my 3xGGF.

    Baps are now on ancestry for the area and period and I have just found a couple of siblings for him, Mary Ann and Ann Webb Smith. Father and mother the same as William - William Sayer (or Syer) Smith and Rachel Davis.

    NOW, on the register for Mary Ann, 1787, apart from the usual just name of parents it actually says "from The Tower Liberty 1787". I noticed another kid with this next to them further up the page.

    I have looked this up on google and can see it is an area within the Tower of London which gave certain weird and wonderful rights to the inhabitants. But I cant yet find WHO would be living in that area. As the son became a customs officer and William Sayer Smith and Rachel Davis married in Bristol, Im thinking it must be something to do with mariners in this case, rather than beefeaters . Anyone know though please?
    Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 15-10-11, 14:16.

  • #2
    Blimey, I thought OC would know this one

    Ive just been looking at old maps of the Liberty area and I see it includes "Tide Waiters Court". I remember that a Tide Waiter is a customs man. So I am thinking William Sayers Smith may have well been a customs officer, as his son William Webb Smith was.

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    • #3
      Sorry Heather, I've been busy sorting out the Greek Orthodox church, pmsl.

      The liberty of the Tower of London was originally an open space which surrounded the tower of London, for defensive purposes. Long since filled in by housing etc.

      The reason the distinction is made in such things as church registers etc, is because if you were born in the Liberty, then you came under Tower Hamlets, not the city of London and that would have been important back then, what with removal orders and settlement rights and parish poor law obligations.

      So, to sum up, the Liberty was a lttle island of land which fell under the tower Hamlets jurisdiction, completely surroumnded by the city of london.

      OC

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      • #4
        So it would have no relevance to his likely occupation? I thought with that tide waiters close that it would be likely the customs officers were billeted there? (Greek orthodox church lol, dont hear much about the Norman french nowdays)

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        • #5
          LOL, and I was wrong about the Greek Orthodox cas well!

          With great dignity I have decided never to mention the Norman French ever again and keep what I know to myself and you lot can all go and jump.

          No, occupation was probably irrelevant.

          OC

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          • #6
            Heather have you read this:



            The Liberties of the Tower, though OC is right are now part of Tower Hamlets, before 1900 were not part of the city or what later became Tower Hamlets, like the Liberty of Norton Folgate, they were entirely independant entities. The Tower Liberty it must be remembered was not even all in one part or location, it included the Old Artillery ground, which borders, and was generally thought of as Spitalfields. A few of mine born and died there, and were silk weavers. The Minories were also included, (part) and another ancestor was born there, the people living there had no special occupational significance either, it was just very poor housing. The significance of the 'liberties' really lies with their previous incarnation as church lands claimed by the crown in the reformation.
            Last edited by Richard; 15-10-11, 22:10.

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            • #7
              Yes, I shudda said, lol - the Liberty was what was known (still is, in some circles) as a "peculiar" which answered directly to the Crown and not to the church.

              The peculiars were a proper nuisance from the genealogists' point of view because they could make their own rules and could keep whatever kind of daft registers they liked. They could perform marriages by proxy, although I think this must have been quite rare, and could marry anyone without Banns or residency rules, so they were very popular with runaways. Manchester Cathedral was a peculiar.

              I think most of the peculiars have now been gathered into the fold as it were, and obey ecclesiastical law but they do still have some odd powers.

              OC

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              • #8
                I think this may also be a sibling baptised at St Botolph Aldgate:

                Hannah Smith Christening 15 Sep 1776 St Botolph Aldgate, London William,Rachel

                The entry gives the adress as East Smithfield, which is part of the Tower Liberty , part of the well close chunk of the liberty, (see linked map below) so some idea exactly where they were living.



                East Smithfield is today next to St Katherines docks, but I don't think that was built until a few decades after this period so probably not relevant to the likely occupation of your couple.

                Incidently the church they were using to baptise the other children St Olave Hart Street one pair of my own ancestors were married in at this same time 1780's, It is a beautiful little medievel church in the heart of the city and quite unlike any other in London, well worth a visit!
                Last edited by Richard; 15-10-11, 22:40.

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                • #9
                  Actually you might be on to something Heather with the Customs link, the Old Custom's House was a street or so away from St Olave Hart Street, which was on the other side of the Tower from East Smithfield. There were nearer churches to East Smithfield, (as above St Botolph Aldgate for one) so it may have been he chose to baptise his children there near to his place of work.

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                  • #10
                    Many thanks Richard and OC.

                    Yes Richard, my direct bloke was baptised at St Olaves Hart Street. I believe it was Samuel Pepys church I really ought to take some time to go round London looking at this places in person.

                    Where as it may not be strictly a clue, I do think the fact William Webb Smith was a customs officer and William (the father) came up from Bristol - another big port city - would point to dad also being a customs officer. If you look at that map Richard, you can see in the lower one there is a "tide waiters court". Now to my mind (rightly or wrongly) that would be housing for the customs officers.

                    Thanks for the input x much appreciated.
                    Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 16-10-11, 10:28.

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