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Can anyone help me with Charley Ward?

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  • Can anyone help me with Charley Ward?

    Hi I am looking to see if anyone can help me with my great grandmothers brother Charley Ward.

    I think he was born around 1896 in West Ham. I have him in the 1901 census age 5 living in Sandel Street, West Ham. I think I have him aged 14 still in West Ham with his mother Clara Ward. From then on I know practically nothing. My dad can remember meeting an Uncle Charley (he would have been a great uncle) but not when. My dad was born 1947 so I presume he was alive after this date. My dad also thinks he may have served in WW1 but again no evidence.

    According to some records from the Childrens Home my great grandmother lived at his full name is given as Charles William Ward (his father was Charles and his grandfather was William so the names fit in) but on another record he is known as Charles Harold Ward.

    Branching out a wee bit from the tree to uncles/aunts etc and as his name came up and my dad met him I wanted to see if there was any further information I could find out

    Many thanks

    Steven

  • #2
    There is a Charles William Ward baptized, parents William and Clara in Tower Hamlets, 3 Nov 1895.
    Sorry my knowledge of London is nil.
    herky
    Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

    Comment


    • #3
      There is a Charles William Ward baptized, parents William and Clara in Tower Hamlets, 3 Nov 1895.
      Sorry my knowledge of London is nil.
      To add - father was a milk carrier.
      OOOPPS - what I have I done - seeing double again.
      herky
      Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry herky I should have said his parents were Charles Ward and Clara Pettitt.

        Thanks for looking. I don't know if he married

        Steven

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by stevie2006 View Post
          Sorry herky I should have said his parents were Charles Ward and Clara Pettitt.

          Thanks for looking. I don't know if he married

          Steven
          Ah, sorry, don't know why I latched onto William as father, perhaps something to do with my double vision!!
          - OK - will keep looking
          herky
          Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

          Comment


          • #6
            Charles Harold Ward, b 4 Q, 1896, 4a 212, West Ham
            herky
            Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

            Comment


            • #7
              That must be him herky thank you very much. Lets hope someone can help me with a marriage or death

              Steven

              Comment


              • #8
                Spent all morning looking through marriage certificates and death ones to see if Charley is mentioned for example as a witness but absolutely nothing. Common name probably doesn't help and no luck on freebmd as yet

                Steven

                Comment


                • #9
                  You say "I think I have him aged 14 still in West Ham with his mother Clara Ward"

                  The only one I can see of a Charles age 14 is Charley with parents James and Clara not Charles.

                  What were the details for that 1911 census please?
                  Kat

                  My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Is this your family?

                    1901 census
                    1901 England Census about Charley Ward
                    Charley Ward,
                    Age.5
                    Father-Charles Ward
                    Mother-Clara Ward
                    Born: West Ham, Essex, England

                    West Ham, Stratford


                    Piece: 1564
                    Folio: 29
                    Page Number:
                    Charles Ward 32
                    Clara Ward 31
                    Elizabeth Ward 7
                    Isabella Ward 6
                    Charley Ward 5
                    Rose Ward
                    herky
                    Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Kat the father Charles died in 1905. The 1911 census says head of the family is James but I searched before (with help from FTF) but couldn't find a marriage between James and Clara. One thought was perhaps James was the brother of Charles and was looking after the family or perhaps she married someone with the same surname or maybe it was a transcription error.

                      It must be my family as surely too much of a coincidence that Clara, her son Charley and daughters Grace and Hilda all match with my family? The only other piece of information I came across was in the letter from the childrens society about my great grandmother Isabel (Clara's daughter). It says after the death of Clara's husband Charles there were some relatives named although none were in a position to contribute to Clara and her upbringing of her children. One was named as Jack Ward and his address was given as 5 Claude Road, Upton Manor but his age is given as 35 in 1905 and it says he had a family of his own so I don't think it could be him. On the 1911 census Clara is listed as age 38 (I know her date of birth was 8/9/1869) so it kind of fits and James is listed as age 30. It also says Clara had 7 children of which 6 were living and I know for a fact she had Elizabeth, Isabel, Charley, Rose, Grace and Hilda and I know there was a Mabel who died so all my information fits in - I simply don't know who James is.

                      herky thats them in 1901 - I have a copy of the census and all the names, ages etc all tie in

                      The strange this is that I hit a brick wall with Clara - I can't find a second marriage (if indeed she did remarry) and I can't find a death. Maybe she did in fact marry James but the surname was mis transcribed in 1911 - the children were Ward's but maybe her surname is different. I would love to get to the bottom of this one but had to give up previously which was a shame. The whole Ward family after 1911 are a mystery apart from Isabel my great grandmother.

                      Thanks for all your help

                      Steven

                      PS One last potential clue from the 1911 census - its says James and Clara have been married 3 years which puts a potential marriage between say 1907 and 1908?
                      Last edited by stevie2006; 15-10-11, 22:34.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Steven,
                        Have you seen the actual handwritten 1911 census or just the transcription?
                        I wonder if the original would be of any help if you haven't already viewed it.
                        It is strange that you can't find her death but if she did remarry, either legally or just as a common law wife, then it might be difficult to find her if she used another name.
                        Hmmm - lots to look for and so annoying when not found.
                        herky
                        Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Image shows:
                          WARD, James Head Married M 30 1881 Labourer Dokc Stratford Essex
                          WARD, Clara Wife Married F 38 1873 Stratford Essex
                          WARD, Charley Son Married M 14 1897 Stratford Essex
                          WARD, Grace Daughter F 9 1902 Stratford Essex
                          WARD, Hilda Daughter F 6 1905 Stratford Essex
                          27 Hartland Road West Ham Stratford
                          Looks like JW Ward or MR Ward signed.



                          Married 3 years against both,( his crossed off by enumerator - only 'cos it shouldn't be written against his name)
                          7 children 6 living and 1 died - so adds up.
                          Interestingly against the childrens names - Boy and Girl have been overwritten by son and daughter. As a mother I wouldn't have written that so could mean they aren't his or could mean absolutely nothing at all!!
                          But married 3 years does suggest another marriage. A bit strange him being a Ward too as you say .

                          It might be worth tracing Charles Ward (father) backwards in the census to see if James is related somehow.

                          Edit: Did anyone notice it says married against Charley's entry on the transcription?. It doesn't on the image tho!!!!
                          Last edited by Katarzyna; 16-10-11, 20:08.
                          Kat

                          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                            Image shows:
                            WARD, James Head Married M 30 1881 Labourer Dokc Stratford Essex

                            WARD, Clara Wife Married F 38 1873 Stratford Essex
                            WARD, Charley Son Married M 14 1897 Stratford Essex
                            WARD, Grace Daughter F 9 1902 Stratford Essex
                            WARD, Hilda Daughter F 6 1905 Stratford Essex
                            27 Hartland Road West Ham Stratford
                            Looks like JW Ward or MR Ward signed.



                            Married 3 years against both,( his crossed off by enumerator - only 'cos it shouldn't be written against his name)
                            7 children 6 living and 1 died - so adds up.
                            Interestingly against the childrens names - Boy and Girl have been overwritten by son and daughter. As a mother I wouldn't have written that so could mean they aren't his or could mean absolutely nothing at all!!
                            But married 3 years does suggest another marriage. A bit strange him being a Ward too as you say .

                            It might be worth tracing Charles Ward (father) backwards in the census to see if James is related somehow.


                            Yes, I agree. I have a relative where the wife remarried the dead husband's 1st cousin who had the same surname - it caused me all sorts of confusion until I went back and realised the connection.
                            I also have lots of families where brothers and sisters married brothers and sisters - it all adds to the difficulty in sorting things out.

                            herky
                            Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks kat for posting a copy of the census that really helps and spot on about James I need to try and find except I have tried and failed lol

                              Thanks herky its looks like one of those scenarios - either she remarries someone with the same name, she was living with a cousin or brother in law or its an error on the census. I am inclined to think they must be married as it says so on the census and also how long they have been married ie 3 years. James was not the father of the children and that also ties up. Can anyone help to find James in 1901? This is my biggest brick wall ever and I just can't solve it. When did Clara marry James and when did she die?

                              Thanks

                              Steven

                              PS in the letter from the childrens society the only Ward's named were Jack Ward aged about 35 in 1905 livimg at Claude Road, Upton Manor occupation workman and Bill Ward aged around 32 in 1905 living at 22 Elbe Street, Fulham. I have Charles (Clara's first husband) in 1881 in Stratford :

                              William father age 33
                              Elizabeth wife age 32
                              Frederick age 13
                              John age 10
                              William age 6
                              Agnes age 2
                              Emily age 4 months

                              In 1891 I only have Charles on his own living in Plaistow with his uncle Thomas Mears, Mary Mears and their daughter Jessie. No sign of a James
                              Last edited by stevie2006; 16-10-11, 13:53.

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                              • #16
                                I think this means I need to look for a marriage for Clara Ward to James Ward sometime between 1905 (when Charles died) and 1908/1909. On the letter from the childrens society it says in 1908 Clara was living at 27 Tower Hamlet Road, Forest Gate with her 3 younger children and no mention of a husband. She was said to earn money by washing clothes and taking in lodgers. I also found another address when on 29th October 1910 Clara wrote to the Society from 37 Albert Square Forest Lane, Stratford to ask that her elder daughter Elizabeth be returned to home as she felt she could find her work.

                                I posted these as I thought they might help pin point a location for a possible marriage

                                Steven

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                                • #17
                                  No marriages on freebmd so I can only now assume either he was a cousin etc of Charles Ward and they did not get married or the name James Ward is incorrect and an error was made with the census.

                                  No death either for Clara on freebmd too - I am now beginning to think she did marry James but the surname on he 1911 census is wrong. Where do I go from here?

                                  Steven

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I found a Clara Ward on freebmd who died in West Ham on June 1915 aged 47. Clara was born in 1869 so the age kind of fits - I narrowed down to West Ham as she lived around that area. Could that be a possibility?

                                    Steven
                                    Last edited by stevie2006; 16-10-11, 19:44.

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                                    • #19
                                      I suspect they didn't marry as he may then have become liable to support the other children in care.
                                      Margaret

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                                      • #20
                                        Thanks for that Margaret that certainly makes sense. I am now focusing on any deaths for Clara Ward as I think you may be right that she didn't marry

                                        Steven

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