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Winifred Daisy Franks Bryant - can you help find her in Cardiff?

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  • Winifred Daisy Franks Bryant - can you help find her in Cardiff?

    Just received will of my gt gt grandfather today. It has confirmed that my grandfather had a sister. My mother told me he had a sister, Daisy. The will was made 31/5/1898 so she was alive then.

    In the will, her full name is Winifred Daisy Franks Bryant, daughter of William Bryant.

    Her mother, Kezia (nee Sinclair), died same month she was born so I imagine it was connected to childbirth. Her father, William, was at sea with his job and can't find him in 1901.

    I have all the other members of family sorted - just Winifred Daisy (or may be known as Daisy) need help with. The most likely outcome is she died but not coming up on Free BMD/Ancestry BMD death.

    Free BMD birth: 12/1883Winifred Daisey Bryant Cardiff Vol 11a p 328.

    I have tried to find this one before in case she was related. Still nothing coming up on Free BMD deaths, not with family in 1891 and not in later census records although haven't checked 1911.

    The family in 1891:

    Head: Robert Bryant b1819 Devon Married. Own means.
    Son: William Bryant b1855 Cardiff Widower. Seafaring man.
    Grandson: William H Bryant b1882 Cardiff Scholar.
    2 York Place.
    Civil/ecclesiastical parish: Canton Cardiff
    All my subs to FMP and Ancestry have expired now so would welcome any help you can offer.
    Last edited by Darksecretz; 13-10-11, 16:13. Reason: making the post easier to read :)
    Liz

  • #2
    I can't see anything for 1891 either - she could have been given up for informal adoption in which case you'd have very little chance of finding her as her name was probably changed.
    Margaret

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    • #3
      That might be so, Margaret...her grandmother was alive and cared for her brother who was a year younger. Maybe she couldn't cope with the two children. My late mother mentioned the sister Daisy but gave no other info. At least I have confirmed via the will that she belonged to this family. Thank you for looking.
      Liz

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry Liz, I have had to alter the font size on your header post as it was very small and difficult to read. :(
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          Could she have been adopted by the Franks family.

          In 1901 census

          FRANKS, John Head Married M 42 1859 Dock Labourer Cardiff Glamorganshire
          FRANKS, May A Wife Married F 38 1863 Birdgend Glamorganshire
          FRANKS, Winifred D Daughter Single F 17 1884 Cardiff Glamorganshire
          WILLIAMS, John Nephew M 3 1898 Braunton Devonshire
          Piece:4989 Folio:9 Page:9 Registration District:Cardiff
          Last edited by Breckland Jane; 13-10-11, 16:15.

          Comment


          • #6
            In 1891

            Piece:4402 Folio:91 Page:59 Registration District: Cardiff

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Breckland Jane View Post
              Could she have been adopted by the Franks family.

              In 1901 census

              FRANKS, John Head Married M 42 1859 Dock Labourer Cardiff Glamorganshire
              FRANKS, May A Wife Married F 38 1863 Birdgend Glamorganshire
              FRANKS, Winifred D Daughter Single F 17 1884 Cardiff Glamorganshire
              WILLIAMS, John Nephew M 3 1898 Braunton Devonshire
              Piece:4989 Folio:9 Page:9 Registration District:Cardiff
              that is looking to be a good possiblility there Jane, :smilee:
              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Breckland Jane View Post
                Could she have been adopted by the Franks family.

                In 1901 census

                FRANKS, John Head Married M 42 1859 Dock Labourer Cardiff Glamorganshire
                FRANKS, May A Wife Married F 38 1863 Birdgend Glamorganshire
                FRANKS, Winifred D Daughter Single F 17 1884 Cardiff Glamorganshire
                WILLIAMS, John Nephew M 3 1898 Braunton Devonshire
                Piece:4989 Folio:9 Page:9 Registration District:Cardiff
                Well done Jane! a good find looks very likely.
                Margaret

                Comment


                • #9
                  Julie many thanks. I don't know what is wrong my postings when I copy and paste - can't then get the font size correct even when I alter on here with the toolbar.

                  And whoopeeeeee! Well done, you have cracked it! Jane - could you send me the images if I mail you my address? My subs are finished to Ancestry, etc. Anyone find her in 1911 on FMP?
                  Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 13-10-11, 16:52.
                  Liz

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think its to do with the font you use elsewhere, word? then copy n paste into your thread, the default font doesnt know what to do, so it compensates I think.
                    it is best to compile the question 'live' so to speak, if you go away the post autosaves so that you can come back and dont lose it all.
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Certainly Liz, please PM me.

                      Jane

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you Jane.
                        Liz

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Liz, I was getting strange results when I copy-pasted stuff a while ago, but I've found the solution:

                          go to Settings (top right of this page) - General Settings - Miscellaneous Options.
                          Then in the Message Editor Interface choose either the basic or the standard editor, but NOT the enhanced interface.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                            Liz, I was getting strange results when I copy-pasted stuff a while ago, but I've found the solution:

                            go to Settings (top right of this page) - General Settings - Miscellaneous Options.
                            Then in the Message Editor Interface choose either the basic or the standard editor, but NOT the enhanced interface.
                            ahh you mean WYSIWYG (wizzywig) which means.... what you see is what you get!
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you Mary and Julie. I was on the enhanced one and am trying standard now. Whew - thought it was my computer.

                              I have just found the marriage of Winifred Daisy's adoptive parents and there isn't a blood link to the Bryants:

                              Marriage of John Franks and Mary Ann Ward: Free BMD: 3/1880 Cardiff 11a 339

                              Jane has sent me the Franks in 1911 but Winifred Daisy isn't with them and Jane can't find her anywhere else yet.

                              Tried BMD Marriage and Death - nil.

                              In the 1901 census, I notice there is a large boarding house nearby full of seamen of every nationality, lot of Italians.

                              Wonder if she emigrated.

                              Am signing off for tonight. The wizzywig mastered, what is left to do ?
                              Liz

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I had a thought overnight...in my gt gt grandfather's will, Daisy is called by her legal name of Winifred Daisy Franks Bryant. So legally it looks as though the Franks didn't adopt her. She just took their name.

                                Family search shows in 1911 a Winifred Bryant b1882 Penarth in an institution in Cardiff. Could someone check it out and send me the image please?

                                I have pieced together the story after Jane sent me the census images. In 1891, the Franks family address was 21 Glebe Place, Penarth. Daisy's brother, William Henry (my grandfather), was born at 8 Glebe Place in 1882. So...they were nieghbours. In 1911, the Franks declare they had a child who died. The most likely are:

                                There was a baby girl who died in 1880, the year of their marriage.

                                Born 9/1884, died 12/1884 Frederick Latimer Franks, 0 yrs. Cardiff Vol 11a p153.

                                You can imagine the scenario: The Franks probably started by offering to look after Daisy to help the family. Daisy's brother, William Henry, was cared for by his grandparents and their father was away at sea a lot. The Franks also looked after their nephew in 1901 and 1911.
                                The Franks had no more children so perhaps Ma(r)y Franks couldn't have them after the birth of her first child.

                                Cannot find Winifred Daisy under surnames Franks or Bryant in BMD or Family Search for marriage or death. There is an Ancestry death reg for Daisy Bryant in 1954 Cardiff. I can't access it - could someone check her birth year etc and see if it is a possible please?
                                Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 14-10-11, 06:31.
                                Liz

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  In 1911 Winifred Bryant was in a Convalescent Home - I'll send the images.

                                  I've had a look at the 1954 death but the age is 65 which is quite a few years out.

                                  Jane

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thank you Jane, that is great. We found her!

                                    So we know she was alive in 1911, going by name of Winifred Bryant, single, domestic servant...and not very well.

                                    Thank you for elimating that death of Daisy too, Jane.
                                    Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 14-10-11, 08:52.
                                    Liz

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      The Dulwich House Convalescent Home where she stayed is a historical building now. The 1911 address is ?Pencisely Rd but on the web is 42 Queen St.

                                      http://http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/...AL%2C+CARDIFF/

                                      Strange...there is a business now in Dulwich House, Pencisely Rd...Yes googled some more and it's flats now. Perhaps the home moved to Queen St...
                                      Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 14-10-11, 09:22.
                                      Liz

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        This Free BMD Marriage ref could well be Winifred Daisy...in Edmonton, N London. Her brother, my grandfather, stayed in Cardiff but most of his adult children left home for Edmonton before WW2, for work etc. There were a few other Winifred D Bryants in other areas.

                                        3/1944 Edmonton Marriage: Winifred D Bryant + Ernest V Lewington Vol 3a p1733.

                                        Not in BMD Marriage or Death under surname Lewington up to 1983 any area.

                                        The only children with Mother’s maiden name Bryant:

                                        Births Dec 1947 Lewington Peter Worthing 5h 679
                                        Births Mar 1950 Lewington Jennifer I Worthing 5h 580

                                        This would make Winifred Daisy 54 and 57 years old when having the above children.
                                        Erm...don't think it is the right one...
                                        Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 14-10-11, 18:10.
                                        Liz

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