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Hertfordshire lookup please - Thomas Bunyan b1770

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  • Record Office: Hertfordshire lookup please - Thomas Bunyan b1770

    I wonder if anyone is able to do a Hertfordshire lookup for me please.

    According to the 1841 census Thomas Bunyan AgLab was living Codicote Village, Herts with wife Elizabeth - both born in the county.
    1851 Thomas is living Farm Yard, Welwyn, Thomas 81, Pauper Agricultural Labourer, born Hatfield, wife Elizabeth 77, born Kings Walden, daughter Elizabeth 40, Unm born Codicote.

    I believe his wife is Elizabeth Marshall married 10 Oct 1793 according to St Pauls Walden parish records . I know nothing more about Elizabeth Marshall altho there is a likely death Dec 1857 Hatfield aged 83.

    1810 Dau Elizabeth Bunyan bap 29 Jul 1810 Bethel-Independent Welwyn, died Sep 1891 Hatfield, aged 84.

    I should be grateful if you would see if you can find the bap of Thomas Bunyan abt 1770.
    I'd like to know who are his parents.

    >>I do not think my Thomas is Thomas Bunyan born 1 Jun 1769 son of Robert Bunyan of Royston and Ann.
    >>Nor do I think he is Thomas Bunyan born 1766_Clothall.
    Thanks,
    Last edited by ParkTown; 09-10-11, 22:26.

  • #2
    Familysearch has Thos Bunyan, baptized 01 Jun 1769, in ROYSTON,HERTFORD,ENGLAND - I don't know the geography . . . If he were a pauper, do you think there might be poor law records?

    Comment


    • #3
      Codicote is in the Hitchen area of Hertfordshire
      There is a baptism nearby of a Thomas Bunyan in 1766 in Clothall hertfordshire
      Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


      I have often fouund that the 1841 census rounded up year of birth, so it could be him?

      Clothall location can be found here
      Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

      Researching:
      FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

      Comment


      • #4
        So, the film source for your 1766 records is probably this film #991311:
        familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcatalog-search-api%3A8080%2Fwww-catalogapi-webservice%2Fitem%2F346786

        You'd like a copy of the record?

        Comment


        • #5
          Sorry PhotoFamily , I'm a bit new here and don't fully understand what you are saying.
          I suppose you are addressing me, and offering me a file of the records.

          So I readily say yes please.
          Um, now what....

          Comment


          • #7
            Sorry, ParkTown -
            familysearch entries are transcriptions typically from two sources: the actual record, which is usually a film in the family history library, or the IGI.

            Transcriptions are done by volunteers, using a method where two transcriptions are made by two different volunteers, and arbitrated by a third if there is a difference in transcribed entries. They are reasonably accurate. The transcription contains the film number from which it is transcribed - that's the weblink I posted.

            It's good practice to obtain the original record. There can be transcription errors, and there may be bits of notes in the margins that weren't transcribed! - all of which can be checked by viewing the original record.

            So, the record from which the 1766 record came can be viewed (and scanned) at local family history centres. The film may not be located at your local FHC - it would need to be ordered for a nominal fee to cover costs.

            The record can also be viewed in the RO. And a volunteer could pick it up for you.

            But . . . at this time period . . . barring transcription errors, the record probably won't tell you more than the transcription!

            I believe some researchers take the "batch number" from the transcription (which corresponds to the community from which the record came) and retrieve all records with the same name in the community.

            There's probably more detail about all of this in the reference library
            Last edited by PhotoFamily; 08-10-11, 15:07.

            Comment


            • #8
              I would dearly love to know more about Thomas' origins.
              1851 census, when he was 81, says he was born Hatfield, so born abt 1770.
              and his wife Elizabeth Marshall born 1774 Kings Walden (according to 1851 census) or St Pauls Walden where they married.

              "spouse: Elizabeth Marshall
              groom's name: Thomas Bunyan
              bride's name: Elizabeth Marshall
              marriage date: 10 Oct 1793
              marriage place: Saint Paul's Walden, Hertford, England
              indexing project (batch) number: M07288-2
              system origin: England-ODM
              source film number: 991347"

              Thanks,

              Comment


              • #9
                If he was born at Hatfield he is not the Thomas Bunyan from Clothall. Clothall is nearer to Royston than Hatfield. If he came from Hatfield to St Paul's Walden and then on to Welwyn (Old) and Codicote then that sounds about right as they are all near (ish) each other. Clothall and Roston would be too far out.
                ♥Viv in Herts♥


                Researching Tucker in London/Australia. Cliff in U.S.A. Fuller, Eaton & Sa(u)nders in Bedfordshire. Turner, Morley, Blythe & Webb in Cambridgeshire/Suffolk. Want in Hertfordshire.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Thank you Viv, I agree with you completely. My Thomas was not born Clothall, nor was he from Royston. Thomas married at St Paul's Walden and the 1851 census said born Hatfield.

                  Please tell me why you put (Old) after Welwyn...

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    ParkTown -
                    You might like to move this to the Research Q&A section - more members will notice and make suggestions for research (or even find things!). This section works best when you have know which records you want but just can't get there yourself.

                    An admin can move it, or you could open a new thread in that section.

                    Best wishes
                    sarah

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Someone wiser than I should comment on this, but I'm quite interested in the word "Pauper" added to his occupation. I looked in the occupation listings but didn't find a definition for it. I'm wondering if he could have been assigned that work as part of poor relief.

                      You might want to take a gander at this: http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Hitchin/

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Apparently the PR & BT for Hatfield do exist:

                        I can never tell when a film has been indexed . . . but probably it has not been indexed.

                        So, it's possible that TB's baptism is there.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          The word Pauper.
                          I think we attach our own degrading meaning to this word, rather than what it actually meant in those days.
                          We tarnish the word Pauper, likening it to some sort of Vagrant.
                          I believe it was a Title. My feeling is that a Pauper was merely someone who could not support themselves, prolly coz they were old or infirm and needed to rely on the parish to fund them.
                          I know not all paupers were elderly, I have some aged but 28.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Park Town, many people get confused with Welwyn and Welwyn Garden City - WGC did not get built until the early 1900's.
                            ♥Viv in Herts♥


                            Researching Tucker in London/Australia. Cliff in U.S.A. Fuller, Eaton & Sa(u)nders in Bedfordshire. Turner, Morley, Blythe & Webb in Cambridgeshire/Suffolk. Want in Hertfordshire.

                            Comment


                            • #16
                              Park Town, many people get confused with Welwyn and Welwyn Garden City - WGC did not get built until the early 1900's.

                              PhotoFamily The Hitchin Workhouse would not come into this. As Thomas was living on a farm in Welwyn aged 81 and no longer able to work perhaps he was receiving some form of Parish Releif. Not everyone entered the workhouse.
                              ♥Viv in Herts♥


                              Researching Tucker in London/Australia. Cliff in U.S.A. Fuller, Eaton & Sa(u)nders in Bedfordshire. Turner, Morley, Blythe & Webb in Cambridgeshire/Suffolk. Want in Hertfordshire.

                              Comment


                              • #17
                                Viv I agree with you [sorry PhotoFamily ] as I understand it: Pauper Agricultural Labourer ~ despite the intentions of 1834 Poor Law Act the vast majority received outdoor relief - outside the work house, not as an inmate - small sum of money (one or two shillings), or income in kind (usually loaves of bread) or both.

                                Comment


                                • #18
                                  I didn't mean to imply that he had to have been in the workhouse to receive assistance. There are (some) records of the assistance that local parishes provided to parishioners. And, oops, I was focused on birthplace when I suggested the Hitchins records. Welwyn was its own union.

                                  Comment


                                  • #19
                                    Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                                    I didn't mean to imply that he had to have been in the workhouse to receive assistance. There are (some) records of the assistance that local parishes provided to parishioners. And, oops, I was focused on birthplace when I suggested the Hitchins records. Welwyn was its own union.
                                    FamilyPhoto/Sarah, Hitchin has nothing to do with this at all. I know this area extremely well having lived in Hertfordshire all my life and the area concerned is Hatfield.
                                    Last edited by Viv; 11-10-11, 11:12.
                                    ♥Viv in Herts♥


                                    Researching Tucker in London/Australia. Cliff in U.S.A. Fuller, Eaton & Sa(u)nders in Bedfordshire. Turner, Morley, Blythe & Webb in Cambridgeshire/Suffolk. Want in Hertfordshire.

                                    Comment


                                    • #20
                                      ParkTown, It certainly looks like you need someone to go to HAL's and look at the baptism records for Hatfield circa 1770. I'm sorry I'm unable to get there and do it. Perhaps someone will offer for you. If not, you may need to contact HAL's research service and pay for the look up. Hope you find him soon.
                                      ♥Viv in Herts♥


                                      Researching Tucker in London/Australia. Cliff in U.S.A. Fuller, Eaton & Sa(u)nders in Bedfordshire. Turner, Morley, Blythe & Webb in Cambridgeshire/Suffolk. Want in Hertfordshire.

                                      Comment

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