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glow
30-09-11, 13:17
Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site, hope I have posted to the correct place.

I need help with info on Michael O'Connell b. 1885. I have a marriage cert for him as follows:

Michael O'Connell - 22 - dock lab (living 19 Sandon Place, Cdf - father Cornelius O'Connell)
married 2nd Feb 1907 to
Helena Frances Warren - 18 (living 21 Duffryn Street, Cdf - father Edward Warren)
I found him living at 9 Taff St, Cdf. Any info would be helpful, mothers name? sibling? Where he was born? Just something/anything to give me a start would be fantastic. :)

Thank you
Glow ...

Elaine ..Spain
30-09-11, 13:22
Welcome to Family Tree Forum.

Have you found the family yet on the 1911 census, if so does that give a place of birth for Michael?

Elaine ..Spain
30-09-11, 13:38
Ignore my last comment re the census! Have found them in the 1911 census on Ancestry
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/View.aspx?dbid=2353&path=Glamorgan.Cardiff.Central+Cardiff.25.208

- census gives his age as 27, therefore born c1884 - place of birth Cardiff Glamorgan.
I thought with a name like O'Connell it was gong to be Irish!

In the 1891 census I can see a Michael Connell with father Cornelia (? Cornelius)
Cornelia Connell c 1851 Cardiff, Glamorgan - occ. labourer
Catherine Connell c 1851 Cardiff, Glamorgan,
John Connell c 1871 Cardiff, Glamorgan
Jeremiah Connell c1872 Cardiff, Glamorgan,
Richard Connell c 1874 Cardiff, Glamorgan,
Daniel Connell c 1876 Cardiff, Glamorgan
Mary A Connell c1878 Cardiff, Glamorgan
Michael Connell c1883 Cardiff, Glamorgan
Camelia Connell c 1887 Cardiff, Glamorgan
Pobriet Connell c1887 Cardiff, Glamorgan

RG12; Piece: 4393; Folio 116; Page 71

What is the occupation for Cornelius on the marriage certificate that you have?
Who are the witnesses to the marriage?

glow
30-09-11, 14:29
Thank you Elaine,

I also though Michael O'Connel would have been born in Ireland. (different stories from family members) It is stated that Cornelius (father) is a Dock Labourer and Michael (labourer) Witness - Henry Dangerfield & Annie Warren. Haven't looked for 1911 census.


Thank you

Mary from Italy
30-09-11, 21:55
This is the same family that Elaine found in 1891:

1901:

RG13; Piece: 4979; Folio: 125; Page: 29.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7815&iid=GLARG13_4977_4979-1009&fn=Cornelius&ln=Connell&st=d&ssrc=&pid=31824591

Michael is shown as M Connell, and he and his father are both dock labourers. Cornelius and his wife both say they were born in Ireland.

glow
30-09-11, 22:04
Hi Mary,

Thank you for the info... I knew that some of the family were born in Ireland, but wasn't sure who? Its a start, and thanks again.

Glow

Mary from Italy
30-09-11, 22:15
1881:

Mistranscribed as Commell.

Class: RG11; Piece: 5279; Folio: 65; Page: 87

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8059&iid=GLARG11_5276_5279-1145&fn=Jeremiah&ln=Commell&st=d&ssrc=&pid=5391746

Mary from Italy
30-09-11, 22:16
Do you have a subscription to Ancestry or FindmyPast? If not, I'll post more details.

Mary from Italy
30-09-11, 22:18
1871:

Mistranscribed as Corneilus Connel. He and Catherine both say they were born in Cork.

Class: RG10; Piece: 5401; Folio: 24; Page: 4;

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7618&iid=GLARG10_5400_5403-0216&fn=Corneilus&ln=Connel&st=d&ssrc=&pid=26909340

glow
30-09-11, 23:36
No I don't have any subscription at the moment, only just started...... More details would be fantastic....

Mary from Italy
01-10-11, 12:08
OK, if you've only just started, you need to click on "Starting out on your Research" at the top of this page, which will give you loads of tips.

If you want to research your family tree seriously, you will need a subscription to Ancestry or FindmyPast (or both).
The annual subs are a bit expensive, but to start you off, there are two possibilities:

- your local library will probably have free access to Ancestry (but the amount of time you can use their computers for will be limited)

- you can get a free 14-day sub to Ancestry to use on your own computer. You have to give your credit card details, but if you cancel before the 14 days are up, no money is taken from your card. If you forget, they'll take the full year's sub. I think FMP does a free trial too, but I can't remember the details.

Free sites:

Births, marriages and deaths for England and Wales from mid-1837 to about the 1940s (not sure how far they've got yet):

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Pre-1837 parish records (baptisms, marriages and burials) (doesn't cover the whole country or all periods, though) and the 1881 census:

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true

More UK parish records (still doesn't cover the whole country or all periods):

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

All sorts of free records for numerous countries, including some Irish records:

https://www.familysearch.org/

Mary from Italy
01-10-11, 12:29
1871 census:

Corneilus Connel, head, 21, labourer, born Cork, Ireland
Catherine Connel, wife, 25, born Cork, Ireland
John Connel, son, 15 months, born Merthyr Tydfil, Glam.

living at 18 Bethesda St., Merthyr Tydfil

1881 census:

Cornelius Commell, head, 31, dock labourer, born Ireland
Catherine Commell, wife, 32, born Ireland
John Commell, son, 12, born Merthyr, Glam
Jeremiah Commell, son, 10, born Merthyr, Glam
Richard Commell, son, 7, born Merthyr, Glam
Daniel Commell, son, 5, born Merthyr, Glam
Mary Ann Commell, daughter, 2, born Merthyr, Glam
John Commell, lodger, 30, dock labourer, born Ireland

living at 1 Stanley St., Cardiff St. Mary

Elaine's already given you the 1891 census.

1901 census:

Cornelius Connell, head, 51, dock labourer, born Ireland
C Connell, wife, 51, born Ireland
Jerry Connell, son, 27, dock labourer, born Merthyr, Glamorgan
R Connell, son, 25, dock labourer, born Merthyr, Glamorgan
M Connell, son, 16, dock labourer, born Cardiff, Glamorgan
P Connell, son, 10, at school, born Cardiff, Glamorgan
W Connell, boarder, 18, dock labourer, born Dinas Buris?, Glamorgan
John Hogg, boarder, 16, dock labourer, born Leith, Scotland

living at 19 Sandon Place*, St. John the Baptist parish, Cardiff. All the sons are unmarried.

* This matches the address on the marriage cert you have, so we know this is the right family.

I can send you the census images if you like, but if you decide to get an Ancestry sub, you can view them for yourself.

Mary from Italy
01-10-11, 12:50
This is probably the oldest child, John's birth (from FreeBMD):

Births Mar 1870
Connell John / Merthyr T. / 11a 403

That confirms the census information that he was born in Merthyr, so we know the family were in Wales by 1870. I can't find a marriage for Cornelius and Catherine in England or Wales, and I can't find them on the 1861 Welsh census, so they may well have married in Ireland (presumably Cork where they were both born, but not necessarily) and moved to Wales after the marriage. There are no passenger lists from Ireland to the UK online as far as I know; the only surviving lists are for much longer voyages (e.g. to and from the USA or Australia).

I haven't found an obvious marriage for them at https://www.familysearch.org .

There are more Irish parish records here; it's free to do a basic search, but you have to pay £5 for further details, so it can get a bit expensive if you don't know the exact dates, or you're searching for a common name:

http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/index.php?&set=yes

This is probably Michael's birth:

Births Dec 1884
O'Connell Michael / Cardiff / 11a 328

There was a Michael O'Connell born in the Merthyr Tydfil registration district in 1885, but as Michael's birthplace is shown as Cardiff on the census, the 1884 birth is probably his.

Although it seems clear from the censuses that Michael was the son of Cornelius and Catherine, you'll need his birth certificate to get Catherine's maiden name. In any case it's always best to back up all your findings with certificates, because the information given on the census can be untrue or misleading.

Mary from Italy
01-10-11, 13:08
There is a possible marriage for Cornelius and Catherine on the IGI:

Cornelius Connell
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 1848 Newmarket, Cork, Ireland

Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: Catherine Angland
Marriage: 1871 Newmarket, Cork, Ireland

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true

However, it's a submitted entry.

There are two kinds of entries in the IGI:

- extracted entries, which are transcribed by volunteers from parish records; they should be reliable, although it's as well to check them against the original registers if you can, because transcribers can make mistakes

- submitted entries, which are submitted by members of the LDS church and may or may not be reliable. If an exact date is given, they're more likely to be reliable because it suggests that the submitter has looked at the parish records. However, submitted entries always need to be checked out.

Mary from Italy
01-10-11, 14:37
Those IGI entries came from the "old" familysearch site.

The new familysearch site at https://familysearch.org excludes submitted entries, but contains a lot of new records that aren't on the old site, including an index to Irish civil registration records (it's only an index, so you don't get the full certificate).
Searching for a marriage for Catherine Angland to a Cornelius brings up a marriage in Kanturk (Co. Cork) in 1871. I'm not very familiar with Irish research; Kanturk is near Newmarket, so perhaps Newmarket is in the Kanturk registration district.

Ancestry also has Irish marriages; it shows the names of all people appearing on the same page, but doesn't specify which bride married which groom. This is the entry for the 1871 marriage:

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958

Name / Registration Date / Registration district
Catherine Angland 1871 Kanturk
Kate Anglon 1871 Kanturk
Cornelius Connell 1871 Kanturk
Timothy Connors 1871 Kanturk
Margaret Flynn 1871 Kanturk
Hugh Kenealy 1871 Kanturk
Laurence Nolan 1871 Kanturk
Cornelius O'Connell 1871 Kanturk
Ellen Voughan 1871 Kanturk
Johanna Walsh 1871 Kanturk

I would guess that Kate Anglon is an alternative name for Catherine Angland, and Cornelius O'Connell is an alternative name for Cornelius Connell.

This marriage seems unlikely to be yours, though, because we know your Cornelius and Catherine were in Wales by the beginning of 1870 when John was born.

Anyway, if you get Michael's birth cert it'll show his mother's maiden name, so it'll be easier to search for a marriage.

glow
02-10-11, 01:27
Thanks ever so much for the info.... :sinister: I will be getting membership on Ancestry, did have a few years back but only did my mam's side of the family. (You don't actually realise how much of your time it takes up) and it also becomes like an addiction. I do know most of the free sites, and have been typing up records for LDS for many years (something I enjoy doing) .
Regarding the O'Connell family, I was getting so frustrated with them, and needed help. I couldn't see for looking. lol But thank you for all your help.

When I do get my subscription to Ancestry I will be more than willing to help others like you so kindly did for me. I live just yards aways from Cathays Cemetery in Cardiff. So if anyone needs help regarding pics etc I could do that on my way to the corner shop.

Thanks again

Glow

Mary from Italy
02-10-11, 01:49
Thanks ever so much for the info....

No problem, you're very welcome.


(You don't actually realise how much of your time it takes up) and it also becomes like an addiction.

I think we all know that :)


When I do get my subscription to Ancestry I will be more than willing to help others like you so kindly did for me. I live just yards aways from Cathays Cemetery in Cardiff. So if anyone needs help regarding pics etc I could do that on my way to the corner shop.

That'd be great - can you post your offer on the Research Offers board?

http://www.familytreeforum.com/forumdisplay.php/139-Research-Offers