Brodie Family - Help Please!!!!!

[Jo38]

Hi Everyone,

I've actually posted this on the "new to family tree forum" but I was kindly referred to the Research Qs & As board. So here I am.

First of all there is something I would like to share with everyone which is exciting for me. I've been really hoping that I could find a living relative on my grandfather's side of the family (surname Brodie). This is I believe is my biggest breakthrough since researching my family history and I've actually found a second cousin who is the son of my grandfather's brother so I've been lucky to find a reasonably close relative of my grandfather's family I believe.

I've now learnt things from my second cousin that I never knew and both of us are now working together but there are still things about the family that he doesn't know so we are both still learning and his father (my grandfather's brother) didn't talk about his family and neither did my grandfather so there's a common denominator there. I've also been told by my second cousin that my grandfather and his father had a stepmother and that they had step siblings but my second cousin doesn't think that my g grandfather and this stepmother was married so the step children could be illegitimate???? maybe a skeleton in my family's closet :o, so I still have some things to work out with my grandfather's family even though my second cousin and I are working together to find out more about the family.

I think I'm going to need help with trying to find out some information for my g grandmother. My newfound second cousin has informed me (and neither one of us can be sure of this information) that my g grandmother died and that my g grandfather remarried or didn't remarry after my g grandmother's death and my g grandfather and the stepmother had children hence the thought of maybe illegitimate children. I can't find at the moment if and when my g greatmother died or separated or divorced from my g grandfather. Maybe my g grandmother could have had disappeared under suscpicious circumstances (this is only my speculation).

My g grandmother's details are -

Ethel Elizabeth BLACK - B abt 1883 in or around Ardwick as she resided in Ardwick in 1891 at 21 Chapel St (only guessing with place of birth and I got the address from one of the census)
Ethel Married John William Brodie 10 December 1902 in St Andrews Church Parish of St Andrew (I have a copy of marriage cert so I know this is correct)
Her residence as per the 1911 census was 280 Victoria Square Oldham Rd Manchester and the last child that I can find that she had with my g grandfather was born 24 Feb 1916 (Stella Brodie), so I am guessing that she's died or separated or divorced from my g grandfather after 1916. I'm stating the obvious here aren't I lol..............:D

I would also like to find out when my g grandfather possibly may have remarried or not remarried and had possible illegitimate children as my second cousin did mention that his father didn't like or get along with his stepmother and left home as soon as he could. So now both my second cousin and I are trying to piece this part of the puzzle as we both think that it would help with a couple of other things as well.

Anyway any help would be appreciated on where I might possibly be able to find this information to find out the details of what happened to my g grandmother and her year of death as well as how I might be able to find out other information of my grandfather's stepmother and any other possible children that my g grandfather may have had with this stepmother.

Thanks in advance to everyone for their help and I will hopefully speak with you soon.

Bye for now.

Joanne

[angelina]

The only death i can find on freebmd is Ethel Broady died aged 31 in Bucklow area -thats Altrincham and trafford area - really south manchester. the age is a bit out by 3 years but the nearest i can get.
I think you may have a problem with the spelling of the name as in it may be mistranscribed so i used soundex when searching.
I also searched lancsbmd for a second marriage for john brodie and there are 2 in 1924 and 1925. Do you know the step mothers first name? and what area they lived in?

[Chrissie Smiff]

Hi Joanne and welcome to FTF

Can you tell me please how you know that you have the right Ethel in 1891? Was her father listed on the marriage as George Black - Confectioner (or similar). The reason I ask is because I see that on free BMD she is only listed with the name Ethel Black at marrriage.

[margaretmarch]

Do you have any idea of the years of birth of the step children? and any names?

Just trying to get a fix on when a marriage might have occurred as that might help with finding a death for Ethel. She may of course have just left John and he found another woman to help him with the children - she may have brought her own children with her and these could be the step siblings.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Here's the 1911

BRODIE, John Wiliam Head Married M 32 1879 Out Door Labourer Manchester
BRODIE, Ethel Elizabeth Wife Married 9 years F 28 1883 Manchester
BRODIE, John Robert Son M 4 1907 Manchester
BRODIE, Mercia Daughter F 7 1904 School Manchester
BRODIE, George Edward Son M 0 (1 MONTH) 1911 Manchester

RG14PN24097 RG78PN1385 RD466 SD1 ED9 SN273

Address:
280 Victoria Square Oldham Road Manchester

[kylejustin]

i think the name of the step mother or step siblings if known will help out here. also if you know when john william brodie died as well, as ethel may have married after he died if they separated.

[margaretmarch]

i think the name of the step mother or step siblings if known will help out here. also if you know when john william brodie died as well, as ethel may have married after he died if they separated.

Good thinking!
Margaret

[Jo38]

The only death i can find on freebmd is Ethel Broady died aged 31 in Bucklow area -thats Altrincham and trafford area - really south manchester. the age is a bit out by 3 years but the nearest i can get.
I think you may have a problem with the spelling of the name as in it may be mistranscribed so i used soundex when searching.
I also searched lancsbmd for a second marriage for john brodie and there are 2 in 1924 and 1925. Do you know the step mothers first name? and what area they lived in?

Hi Angelina,

Thank you. I have found that the name of Brodie has been misspelt in other ancestry records and to be honest I didn't think to try searching different variations of the name. Unfortunately I don't know what the stepmothers first name was or where they lived. All I know is that my g grandfather when he died lived at Heywood House 6 Bennet Road Ardwick, this was in about 1952 and he was 74 years of age and that he is buried in the southern cemetery in the K nonconformist section of the cemetery. I don't know if Ardwick is classed as South Manchester.

[Jo38]

Hi Joanne and welcome to FTF

Can you tell me please how you know that you have the right Ethel in 1891? Was her father listed on the marriage as George Black - Confectioner (or similar). The reason I ask is because I see that on free BMD she is only listed with the name Ethel Black at marrriage.

Hi Chrissie,

On the copy of the marriage certificate that I have it has her father as George Black and unfortunately I can't actually see the occupation of her father but it could be confectioner as the copy of the marriage certificate i have is a photocopy that my aunt gave me so it's a bit hard to read. It has the witnesses on the certificate as James Hopwood and the mark of Mary Hopwood. Her name on the marriage certificate is only recorded as Ethel Black. The profession of Ethel in 1902 when she married John was a tailoress and John was a porter (railway porter I think) and they both lived at 19 Nuld Street. John's father's occupation was a master painter and John's father's name was also John just to confuse things even more

Thanks.

Joanne

[margaretmarch]

Hi Angelina,

Thank you. I have found that the name of Brodie has been misspelt in other ancestry records and to be honest I didn't think to try searching different variations of the name. Unfortunately I don't know what the stepmothers first name was or where they lived. All I know is that my g grandfather when he died lived at Heywood House 6 Bennet Road Ardwick, this was in about 1952 and he was 74 years of age and that he is buried in the southern cemetery in the K nonconformist section of the cemetery. I don't know if Ardwick is classed as South Manchester.

I don't think Ardwick is South Manchester - its fairly near the centre and to the east. The death in Altrincham is not likely to be her as it is well out of the city.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Might be worth getting your great grandfather's death certificate to see who registered it. Hopefully it will be a family member as opposed to an official.

Margaret

[Jo38]

Hi Margaret,

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes it could be possible that she left John and he found someone else and she had her own children which she brought to the family. I'm sorry to say that I don't know the name of the step mother or the step children's name at all or even year of birth. The Brodie's you have in your next posting with the 1911 census are the correct family. George Edward is my grandfather and John Robert is the father of my second cousin that I've made contact with.

Thanks again.

Joanne

[Jo38]

Hi Margaret,

I do have his death certificate on order. I'm waiting for it to arrive but I expect it to take a little while to get here seeing that I live in Australia

[Jo38]

i think the name of the step mother or step siblings if known will help out here. also if you know when john william brodie died as well, as ethel may have married after he died if they separated.

Hi kylejustin,

I think your correct in saying this. I have posted John William Brodie death details onto my reply to Angelina. He died in 1952 and was buried 21 June 1952 he would have been around 74 years of age when he died. He was living in Heywood House 6 Bennet St when he died.

Thank you for your input.

Joanne

[Jo38]

I was wondering maybe if Ethel left John she may have moved to South Manchester? She may have left John as he was an epileptic and maybe found it difficult to cope with him being epileptic as in those days he would probably be classed as disabled maybe? These are only my spectulative thoughts.

Joanne

[Jo38]

Sorry Margaret I couldn't reply with a quote as FTF keeps freezing on me. Anyway my last comment was in reply to your last post about you mentioning that the death in Altrincham probably isn't my Ethel. I know my last posting has a lot of maybe's

[angelina]

Just checked manchester burials and Ethel is definitely not in the family grave.

[margaretmarch]

Have you got an exact date of birth for Ethel? If so we could use that along with her first names to see if there's a death in Manchester that might be her. I'm concerned that if she didn't die before John William 'married' for the second time then she will be registered under a different surname if she 'married' again or perhaps just went to live with someone.
Margaret

[Olde Crone Holden]

Remember that deaths are registered where you die, not where you live and she could have died in a sanatorium, or even on a day trip!

There IS a marriage of an Ethel Brodie in 1954, but she is Ethel C, so probably not the right one.

OC

[margaretmarch]

Remember that deaths are registered where you die, not where you live and she could have died in a sanatorium, or even on a day trip!

There IS a marriage of an Ethel Brodie in 1954, but she is Ethel C, so probably not the right one.

OC

Yes, that's true but I think we have to rule out the obvious first surely?

Margaret