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jood
14-09-11, 12:33
I received a death certificate today - confirming a husband for Mary Harris.

Mary died 26th September 1843 in Overbury, Worc. aged 84 (thus born approx 1759).
Her husband was John Harris (Labourer)
Not sure if they were on the 1841 census as I don't have access.

Present at her death was Esther Harris. I don't know if she is a sister in law or daughter.

Currently I only have one daughter for them - Elizabeth born abt 1800 in Conderton, Overbury, Worc

I'm wondering if anyone can find other children, plus Mary's birth, and their marriage which I guess would be around 1798

Thanks for any help.

Darksecretz
14-09-11, 13:44
jood,

have you looked here?

https://www.familysearch.org/search/records#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Aharris~%20%2Bany_place%3A%22ove rbury%2C%20worcestershire%2C%20england%22~%20%2Ban y_year%3A1800-1840~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Ajohn~%20%2Bmother_gi venname%3Amary~

Elaine ..Spain
14-09-11, 15:22
Found this in the 1841 census:
Household:
John Cook 42
Elizabeth Cook 41
William Cook 18
Mariam Cook 16
Ann Cook 14
Joseph Cook 11
Mary Cook 2
Sarah Cook 6
Martha Cook 4
Whada Cook 1
Mary Henry 82 - if you check image it is Mary Harris, not Mary Henry

- living in Overbury, Worcestershire.

with a possible marriage for John and Elizabeth
John Cook / Elizabeth Harris
Marriage - 06 Sep 1821 : Overbury, Worcester, England
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/9Q1Q-NM6/p4

Elaine ..Spain
14-09-11, 15:31
On the facing page of the 1841 census, is a Hester Harris, who could be the informant Esther.

John Harris 56
Hester Harris 50
Thomas Harris 30
Richard Harris 25
Elizabeth Harris 15
Hariah Harris 14
Job Harris 9

jood
15-09-11, 10:32
Thanks so much Elaine - I have just got home from being out all day so it was a nice surprise, - I will update it right away and then have another look - I'm sure thats all the info I need - although I'd like to find the marriage of John Harris & Mary ? just prior 1800 - but I guess that wouldd not be possible. Her death cert did not show parents, naturally.

Darksecretz
15-09-11, 10:50
Jood if she were born in 1759, then she possibly married in 1780, you might have to begin where you know she had children etc.. and work out from there, or see if any settlement records are available. It does seem strange though that they only had the one child.

jood
15-09-11, 12:36
What are settlement records please Julie?

I would still have to find out her maiden name and the marriage first tho, wouldn't I?

How about this https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/97WC-957/p4

Obviously John Harris (snr) had died prior 1841, and Mary living with daughter and son in law.

Finding her children isn't going to be easy.

Darksecretz
15-09-11, 13:24
settlement records are if people moved to a new area, 'they settled' in a new parish, there should be a record stating which parish they have come from.. obviously if they were born/married and settled in Worcs then they wouldnt need to be on the records. I have seen some settlement records for leicestershire, but, I guess that they would be held at Worcs Archives.. sometimes, folks for whatever reason got removed from the parish they were living in and made to return to their 'home' parish. (once again this applies to people that have settled). People that died, often got returned to their home parish for burial. I dont know that much about 'settlement records' so I might be totally wrong, but that is my understanding of what they are.

bit info:

http://www.keystothepast.info/recordoffice/usp.nsf/pws/Durham+Record+Office+-+Family+History+-+Other+Sources+-+Poor+Law+-+Removal+Orders

Darksecretz
15-09-11, 13:25
What are settlement records please Julie?

I would still have to find out her maiden name and the marriage first tho, wouldn't I?

How about this https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/97WC-957/p4

Obviously John Harris (snr) had died prior 1841, and Mary living with daughter and son in law.

Finding her children isn't going to be easy.

that looks very likely Jood :smilee: just need to see now, if you can tie them in..

Historymin
01-10-11, 07:16
What are settlement records please Julie?

I would still have to find out her maiden name and the marriage first tho, wouldn't I?

How about this https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/97WC-957/p4

Obviously John Harris (snr) had died prior 1841, and Mary living with daughter and son in law.

Finding her children isn't going to be easy.

Hi Jood, I might be able to help you :) My 5 X Great Grandmother was Hester/Esther Harris from Overbury married to John Harris. Where is your connection to them?

jood
01-10-11, 12:29
Hi - I am still trying to find out which Mary & John Harris are mine, but the death certificate I got for Mary, Esther Harris was a witness.

Historymin
02-10-11, 07:21
Yes, there were a few Mary and John Harris's in Overbury. Do you know where your connection starts with this family and then I can go from there I just need a bit of a starting point, is this from someone who was transported? Thanks for the certificate.

jood
02-10-11, 07:38
My relative Ann Elizabeth Cook married James Heaven 8 Feb 1851 in Estab Church Parish of Corse, Newent. She was born in 1828 Overbury Worc eng and died 1 Jun 1886 Barton St Mary, Glos. Her husband was James Heaven born 1824, Uley Glos, and he died 19 March 1896 Barton St Mary, Glos.
1851 Census shows her as unmarried, servent aged 24, housemaid Oxenball, Worc (I dont know if that is a typo, or if there is such a place. Her father was John Cook (stone Mason)
1881 census shows her as 53, born at Overbury Worc.
Ann Elizabeth's father was John Cook, born abt 1799 Ipsley Warwickshire., her mother Elizabeth Harris 1800-1872. Mother born Conderton, Overbury, Worc, died 12 July 1872, Overbury Worc.
Elizabeth Harris & John Cook married 7 Sept 1821 Parish of Overbury. Witnesses were Thomas Smith & Thos. Harris.
1841 shows John Cook, 42 (Not of the parish)
Elizabeth Cook, 41, of the parish
numerous children and shows Mary Harris aged 82
They were still on the 1851, 61, & 71 census

The trouble is - I dont know which Mary John Harris married.

Can you help - can I see how you have Hester/Ester - as I said - she was witness to Mary Harris's death, but which one!

Historymin
03-10-11, 07:12
This is where coincidence really gives me a knock! I was researching my Harris family last week and came across the Heaven family in Gloucester such an unusual name so I've remembered it. As you say there are a couple of Mary Harris's which makes it difficult...at the moment but I'm sure we can sort it :)

I haven't found the village of Oxenball but there is a place called Oxenton where I've found some of the Harris family its not far from overbury and Gloucester

My Hester Hathaway was born in Beckford 1785 the next village along to Conderton then Overbury and married John Harris 1875 they married in 1807. They had lots of children including my 5xGt Grand Mother Caroline Harrisb 1810 (and thats another very long story) Her brother William Harris was transported to Australia in 1838.

My John Harris's parents were John Harris and Mary Clarke b 1763 Bredon died 1843 hmmmm this is where its confusing! There is obviously a connection here somewhere.

How did your branch of the family get to Australia?

jood
03-10-11, 09:21
First up - it seems highly unlikely I have the right death certificate if your Hester witnessed Mary's death - it just seems strange that they both married a John Harris. But I wish I could find a link.

The relative who came to Australia was Ellen Utanaya (Utina?) Heaven, who had married before she left England - here are the details. She married William Charles Burgess 9 Sept 1875 at Church of St James, Glos. Ellen was the daughter of Ann Elizabeth Cook & John Cook (Ann's mother being Elizabeth Cook (nee Harris)

After the marriage, he and his wife Ellen (both aged 20 yrs) sailed for Australia (Port Augusta) from Plymouth on 15 October 1875 in the "Lady Jocelyn", arriving in Adelaide on 24 December 1875.

Can you check these dates you typed as they don't make sense ....... My Hester Hathaway was born in Beckford 1785 the next village along to Conderton then Overbury and married John Harris 1875 they married in 1807.

I do know my great grandfather (William Charles Burgess) was invited out to South Australia by the government, as he was a nurseryman, his father having a nursery in Charlton Kings, Glos.

Let me know if anything rings a bell.

Historymin
03-10-11, 12:13
I think you do have the right death cert, just bear with me while I check dates etc :)

BoJaLu
03-10-11, 12:28
Jood,
I think Historymin's reference was to both Hetser Hathway & Jon Harris being born in 1775. They married in 1807.

HistoryMin,
I was not a member of this site , I was doing a “look up ” for Worcestershire when I stumbled across Jood’s post on here , and thought of you. So glad you joined too.
I do hope you and Jood find a connection and that you may in time find your elusive Caroline.

Bojalu

Historymin
03-10-11, 19:28
Hi yes thats right, sorry it was a bit early and I didn't explain properly.
I think it will be best if I go to have alook at the parish records and see if that helps.

Good to have you here too BojaLu

BoJaLu
03-10-11, 21:18
Historymin I Have sent you a P.M

jood
03-10-11, 21:57
Hi BoJaLu - thank you for your input. So I have the death certificate of a supposed Mary Harris, witnessed by Hester Harris (formerly Hester Hathway).

This Mary Harris's late husband was John Harris - and Hester Harris's husband is also John (Jon) Harris. Very confusing, I am not so sure this death certificate is the one I want. :(

jood
03-10-11, 22:11
Just a quick note to anyone reading this:


The County Hall branch of Worcestershire Record Office is currently closed during the first full week of each calendar month (Monday to Friday) in order to prepare for our move to the Hive in 2012. The office will be open on Saturdays as normal. Our History Centre branch will remain open as usual during this time. For further details please visit our website at http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/cms.../the-hive.aspx

As of Monday 14th November 2011, the County Hall branch will close permanently to allow for the movement of our archive collections to The Hive. We will reopen again at the Hive in July 2012.

For more information about our exciting new home and the facilities which will be available, please visit: www.TheHiveWorcester.org

Historymin
04-10-11, 07:09
Oh my goodness, glad you put this on here Jood as I was going to go on Wednesday! It might be easier to order the parish records and view them in Solihull Library.

BojaLu did you find the parish records came quickly? Would you do it again like that?

BoJaLu
04-10-11, 09:00
I was already registered with website FamilySsearch ,( older version ) but to order film online I had to re-register with new FamilySearch.
Film arrived within 3 – 4 weeks. It may have taken this long as I was the first to order with new set up at Solihull.
Film cost £7.50 and was held at Solihull Heritage & Archives for 3 months, so I was able to go through the whole film at my leisure and revisit too.

Records I had ordered were from a London Parish so time and money were saved.

Yes, It will definitely be my choice to view Parish Records at Solihull again in a nice friendly atmosphere.

Good Luck
Bo

jood
04-10-11, 09:43
Luckily I had written to the Worc Office Min, and thought I should pass on the information about them closing.

jood
04-10-11, 12:10
I heard from the Worc Record Office at the same time Daphne made a long journey to photocopy the Will.


This will was proved on 2.12.1853. There is an accompanying administration, naming Mary Harris, spinster, as the surviving executrix named in the Will.


Mr Harris was given as a Shoemaker. The conditions of the will itself are quite lengthy. Put simply he leaves everything to his wife, Mary, during her life. At her death his property is divided between his daughter Mary Harris, his son Thomas Harris and his daughter Ann, with a provision that at her death, her share should go to his Granddaughter Harriet Johnson, and her heirs, to be given to her (Harriet), when she attained the age of 21, or be married. If this Harriet died without issue, then the property should be left to any heirs of Ann from her second marriage. On the death of these it would revert to his daughter Mary and son Thomas. The property seemed to mainly consist of 3 properties and a list of household belongings.

Not sure if I am allowed to attach the Will for all to read? Advice please.

Historymin
05-10-11, 07:01
How kind of Daphne :)

The will makes interesting reading, I've heard of this Thomas being a propriotor of houses before from my cousin who I'm hoping will contact me with a bit of help with the 'Marys'.

Darksecretz
05-10-11, 20:16
Not sure if I am allowed to attach the Will for all to read? Advice please

I dont see why not Jood, though if you use the 'attach' function on here (the paperclip) then the actual image will be very small. If you use Photobucket that would give a greater size picture on here.

jood
05-10-11, 21:35
Thanks Julie - here it is

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/joody_anne/DeathCert-MHarris.jpg

jood
01-04-13, 21:20
I have just been re-reading this - and I cannot get into this site https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/9Q1Q-NM6/p4

Is anyone having the same problem?

jood
07-04-13, 00:02
I can't open this site either http://www.keystothepast.info/record...Removal+Orders

or this one

How about this https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/97WC-957/p4
wonder why?