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  • Military families

    Does anyone know how families of enlisted men traveled to & fro foreign posts? I've been told they did not travel with their spouses.

    One trip would have been to Curragh Camp, going there in 1863, returning ?1864.

    The second would have been to Bermuda, prob 1864, returning ?1867?

    Are there any existing record sources of those travels? Any records of the soldier's travels (other than musters)?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    A note from my g/fathers paybook.

    quote A soldier must not marry without first obtaining his commanding officers written sanction, otherwise he can never have
    any claim to be borne on the married establishment of his corps.
    A large proportion of staff and regimental serjeants is allowed on the married roll, also 4 percent of the trumpeters, drummers,
    and rank and file who have completed seven years service and are in possession of at least one good conduct badge. When a
    regiment goes to India the proportion of married men permitted to embark is increased. Unquote
    So you can see that not a lot of men managed to have their families with them on overseas postings. Normal method of travel
    would have been by ship and probably would be on line if the ships voyage is there.

    The paybook dates from 1885. Hope this helps.
    Whoever said Seek and Ye shall find was not a genealogist.

    David

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    • #3
      National Archives, Kew, keeps Pay and Muster Books for British Army Regiments.

      Using these, you can track through a soldier’s career and movements, with exact dates. As David’s post indicates only a small proportion of other ranks were included on the “Married Establishment” and I gather that someone had to drop off that before another soldier’s wife could be included in the number. The Married Establishment is listed at the back of the Muster Books ending March each year, with first name of wife and (unnamed) children with their ages.

      I found, in a history of “my” particular regiment in the British Library, the names of ships which transported the troops on their transfer voyages, and then pictures of those ships from The Ships List and the Maritime Museum sites.

      Then, a great deal of other descriptive material about general conditions and postings in Halifax, Canada, and Bermuda, etc, was found through googling.

      It's great to fill out the picture.

      Carol

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      • #4
        Fantastic information.

        He appears to have waited the seven years - he married in Camp Curragh, Ireland in 1863. He was a corporal by then. Was the permission to marry recorded anywhere?

        I've been unable to find a marriage cert except the Irish Civil Reg. I'd really like to find the permission to marry, or a military marriage reg, but have not found it indexed on FMP. It's been hinted on another thread that unindexed military certs remaining, but I can't get any confirmation or details of that. Ditto the birth of their first child in Kildare. Of course, Ireland wasn't a "foreign country" then. Anyone know anything?

        My ancestor was in the RE's, so there isn't a single "regiment" to trace. RE's moved in and out of companies as needed. It makes the musters very difficult to trace.

        Thanks, Carol and Grumpy, for the info
        Sarah
        Last edited by PhotoFamily; 23-08-11, 15:30.

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        • #5
          If the marriage is listed on the overseas section of FMP under the Army section you can apply for the marriage certificate through the GRO Southport. I had a marriage that took place Fermoy Camp Co Cork 1864 and I found it in the Regmental Army Indexes which are on FMP. I sent for the certficate and got what I wanted. If the person was over 30, there is unlikely to be any record of a permission to marry. I have never found any for my army ancestors, but all mine are over 30, which was the age that you had to be, to be able to get married whilst in the army. Many people did marry underage but they got away with it because they falsified their age on joining the army.

          I also have the birth/baptism certificate of the first child born to the couple above at the Curragh Camp Kildare in 1865. This I also found in The Regimental Indexes although I found all mine when they were in books at the old FRC in London, not on FMP.

          If you have not found details of the Marriage Cert than how do you know he married in 1863? You talk about an Irish Civil Reg but that sounds as though he was not in the army when he married? Was he Irish or English? Was his bride Irish? Were they catholic or protestant? If he married in the army, then he should be on FMP. What do you mean he waited the seven years? Does that mean he was only 23 when he wanted to marry but waited 7 years until he was 30? Curragh Camp is Kildare.

          Janet
          Last edited by Janet; 23-08-11, 16:55.

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          • #6
            from grumpy:
            "A large proportion of staff and regimental serjeants is allowed on the married roll, also 4 percent of the trumpeters, drummers,
            and rank and file who have completed seven years service and are in possession of at least one good conduct badge.
            "

            from me:
            have not found it indexed on FMP

            Wish I could figure out the quote system:o

            Anyway - both born England, married in Church of Ireland church at Curragh Camp. I assume the church was required to comply with Irish Civil Reg - which was in effect for Protestant marriages at the time.

            So, fortunately, I do have the Civil Reg. It tells me he was a corporal in the REs, which I knew from the GRO reg for the #2 child's birth in Bermuda.

            Unfortunately, it's telling me something that I don't want to be true! As it is probably transcribed from the parish reg, I'd like to find another source. I've been unable to locate the parish reg itself (probably no longer in existence). I doubt the military registration will give me the info I want, but it would be a shame to leave a stone unturned.

            Comment


            • #7
              are you saying you have the marriage certifictae? and that the marriage took place in a church? if so, you can hire a researcher to go to the national library in dublin, and look up the marriage in the actual church records.

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              • #8
                Yes, I have the Irish Civil Registration marriage certificate. I have looked high and low for the parish records, I think including the Dublin National Library. I don't believe the garrison church's records from 1863 have survived. I will, however, double check my Dublin search. Thanks for the suggestion.

                Comment


                • #9
                  definitely look up researchers that specialise with the dublin library, they will be able to tell you if the records exist then.

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                  • #10
                    Unfortunately most of the Protestant parish records were burnt in the forecourts fire in Dublin in 1922, as these were the main records that were kept there at the time of the fire. Most Catholic records survived as they were never in Dublin, but were and still are with the catholic churches all over Ireland, with only copies in Dublin National Library. Any Protestant parish records that were not burnt and still around are now at the Dublin National Archives. An e mail to them to seek further clarification of your problem may help. Even if they charge it a may be a simple measure of checking.



                    Although you have me puzzled as to what further information you are hoping for if you already have the Marriage Certificate?

                    Getting married in the Protestant church will not make them automatically Protestant or Catholic.

                    My Great G Father married in the Protestant church at Fermoy in 1865, he was an English C of E soldier marrying an Irish Catholic girl! In those days many people tended to follow husband's religion, and this could of course be a reason to cut someone off within families. Children often split between the religions, boys often following father and girls following mother's religion. In my case it was more haphazard, with some childen following C of E and some RC, without the gender bias!

                    Janet
                    Last edited by Janet; 25-08-11, 18:40.

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                    • #11
                      Janet -
                      The best (only?) match for my ancestor in the 1841 and 1851 censuses has a father whose name is different from that on the Civil Reg.

                      As has been discussed on another thread, the parish record is the best! Even better is checking all the records. Since the Civil Reg is a transcription of the parish record, I'd really like to see that parish record.

                      Another thought has been that he was estranged from his own family, and didn't answer truthfully. Definitely a brick wall.

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