James Miller b..c1873..Liverpool.

[patricia5]

Hi I'm new to the forum.Have quite a large tree on my father's side...but Mum's is a mystery.The only documents I have for my grandfather James Miller, are ...Death 1920..Manchester.1911 census, 1901 census and his marriage in 1895.This says his father was John...a dock labourer, and the censuses say he was born in Liverpool.We also believe he was in the 7th East Lancs Reg, in WW1.Had one family on my tree..father John and mother Euphemia, but now think this is wrong.I think we know all the Millers, about this time in Liverpool, and have searched world wide.I've got all his children..but nobody knows anything about him.Can't find anymore websites to search. It is possible that he hasn't been transcribed yet. His death in 1920 was only added about two years ago, on free bmd. Any ideas ?......Branwen

[margaretmarch]

Hi Branwen, Welcome to FTF. lets hope we can help you.

Have you got the WW1 record and if so what information does that give about next of kin - usually father.

All the censuses are transcribed so you should be able to find him going back to the first one after his birth. Are you saying you can't find a birth registration either.
Margaret

[margaretmarch]

I take it you've looked at this birth?
James Miller
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1873
Registration district: Liverpool Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b Page: 76

[Arilla]

Hi Branwen
Sorry if you have already seen this one & discounted it but were your ancestors Catholic? There is a baptism on the Ancestry Liverpool Catholic Marriages at St Joseph's Liverpool, James Miller son of John & Mary (mother's maiden name Reilly) baptised 31 March 1873 (d.o.b. 28 March 1873). Godmother Anna Brown. Could this be your James?
Sandra

[margaretmarch]

Well done Arilla that would fit with the registration I posted.
Margaret

[Arilla]

Indeed it would Margaret! If this is the correct James there is also a tree on Ancestry giving the place of birth as "2back, 2 house, Milton Street, Howard Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England" so it may be worth contacting the tree owner "the macs6" for more info

[patricia5]

Hi Margaret, I went on the Great War Forum a couple of years ago. People found a James Miller that seemed right..but no address,couldn't find a positive link anywhere. My mum born 1911 remembers him putting on his putties...and she remembers he fell down stairs and broke his neck in 1920..right. Can't find a grave.Mum left home in the 30s I think, and had no more contacr with family, until her mother died 1950. Can't find the link between Liverpool and Manchester. We have several birth certs for James Millers born around that time. There are two 1873 . James..father John, dock worker, mother mary Riley..but can't find them after 1881. And James Allen, father John...at the time of James's marriage..1895...he was a steward in the Liverpool sailors Home...not a dock worker. There is one in 1891 in the Workhouse. Just waiting for a death cert for one who died in 1897..to eliminate another one. Just had a death cert for a John Miller died aged 94 in Liverpool..1942..notifier J A Miller...don't know if that is James Allen or not. When he went in the army I think his address should be 4 Fold St, Droylsden Manchester.Have exhausted everything.....he was a journeyman house painter when he got married then woked in the iron foundry.My daughter has been searching for over 10 years...we just want onw link...an address name anything...Glad of any help...Branwen

[patricia5]

We are going back to the the Reilley one..have his birth cert.....but can't find any other link. Branwen

[patricia5]

'the macs 6' on Ancestry is my daughter.....she's srarted a new tree, using this James, to see if any links come back...but no info anywhere. We both have a tree on there, with father John and mother Euphemia...no links there. I have a tree on Genes Reunited...no links there. My maiden name is Patricia Coates...if anyone want's to look...Branwen

[patricia5]

Another mystery...I met his great grandson,Grandson of his son James, and he said they came from Berwick upon Tweed...but I have his birth cert...Ancoats, Manchester...

[patricia5]

Hi all.....Can anyone find a marriage for a JOHN MILLER and a MARY RILEY?...various spellings of RILEY...Son james born 1873, Did find other maybe's siblings for this james in the Liverpool RC baptism records, had similar names for god mother but Riley was spelt different.....NEED to find the marriage, could be anywhere......Thank you for your help....

[Arilla]

Sorry Branwen, not sure whose birth cert you are referring to in post 10 - Ancoats, Manchester. Was this James' son?
You have clearly done a lot of research over the years. I would say the Miller/Riley birth sounds a distinct possibility, particularly if the birth certificate shows the same occupation as the father on James marriage certificate. From what you know of the family is a Catholic baptism likely or was there no other RC connection? Have you tried to trace any connection to the Godmother Anna/Ann Brown?
I've had a quick look & can't see a likely Miller/Riley (Reilly) marriage at present but I would search on any spelling variations including O'Riley/O'Reilly as spelling was variable in those days, particularly in the Catholic records which are latinised. Have you tried the Liverpool Catholic marriages on the excellent Liverpool History Projects website? This is a useful free search which is often easier to use than Ancestry but can point you in the direction of the correct church.

[patricia5]

Many thanks Arilla, yes the birth is for his son James 1904. I never heard my mum talk of any relatives, of her father.Tried all spellings, and searched for Anna Brown. Still can't find John and Mary Miller in the 1881 census, or any of the later ones. If they went abroad, perhaps only James came back. Doesn't seem to be any link between Liverpool and Manchester. They were married in a Catholic church, in Little Italy, Manchester. Can't see the original records to see if there was a dispensation....only one would be Catholic. Think my gran was...mum was.I think we have been on that site.....lost track now....thanks for your help....Branwen

[clematised]

John Miller married Elizabeth Riley in 1887 at St Josephs http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects..../marriages.php

You can send for a copy of the marriage from the site

Edna

[clematised]

Year-Ref Church Volume (page) Year of Birth Year of Baptism Forename Surname Forename of Father Surname of Father (if different) Forename of Mother Maiden Name of Mother For Full Details of this Baptism
1888-4706 ST JOSEPH 282-JOS-1-6 (643) 1888 1888 MARGARET MILLER JOHN ELIZABETH RILEY
1889-4797 ST JOSEPH 282-JOS-1-6 (835) 1889 1889 WILLIAM JOHN MILLER JOHN ELIZABETH RILEY

These are the children to the above couple but I have tried all ways to find the marriage mentioned in the Roman Catholic Marriages mentioed for Mary Riley married to John Miller and there are none and I am familiar with using this site for searches.
baptisms only go from 1883 to 1901 and Marriages from 1837 to 1901

Edna

[Katarzyna]

John Miller married Elizabeth Riley in 1887 at St Josephs http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects..../marriages.php

You can send for a copy of the marriage from the site

Edna

This must be a second marriage then? Son James the direct descendent of Branwen was born in 1873.

[Arilla]

I have been unable to find a likely Miller/Riley marriage before 1873. There are a couple of other baptisms on the Ancestry Liverpool RC baptisms with parents John Miller & Mary Riley (Reilly etc), both at Our Lady of Reconciliation de la Salette but they are quite a bit earlier in 1856 & 1860 so there is a big gap unaccounted for. The marriage could therefore be earlier than 1856.
You have mentioned other baptisms so you probably already have the details but for the benefit of any others looking they are
Jan 1856 - Mary Miller, Parents John Miller & Mary Riley, Godparents James Riley & Bridget McConnell
May 1860 - Margaret Miller, Parents John Miller & Mary Riley, Godmother Helen Burns (or Brown? can't read it!)
Mar !866 - John, same parents. Godmother Anna Brown
I haven't yet traced Mary Jr, Margaret or John in any censuses.

[Katarzyna]

1891 census Liverpool workhouse - no occ given

James Miller b1873 Liverpool

RG12; Piece: 2917; Folio 87; Page 20

[clematised]

I have lost where this thread is up to but will add these two baptisms just in case it helps

Edna

James Miller
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

residence: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
parents: Leonard Miller, Mary Anne Miller

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: James Miller
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 28 Jun 1874
baptism/christening place: All Souls Church, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
father's name: Leonard Miller
mother's name: Mary Anne Miller
indexing project (batch) number: C00688-4
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1656147

James Warburton Miller
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

birth: 18 Dec 1873
residence: 1873 —Lancashire, England
parents: John Miller, Elizabeth

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: James Warburton Miller
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 01 Mar 1874
baptism/christening place: SAINT PETER,LIVERPOOL,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
birth date: 18 Dec 1873
father's name: John Miller
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: D19840-4
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: unknown

[patricia5]

Many thanks.....We have all the history for James the son of Leonard, even his war record. My daughter passed it on to his grandson. James Warburton would have been good, my James married Martha Warburton...but he died age 3. The James in the workhouse I thought may be ours, before coming to Manchester on his own. I'm waiting for a death cert..James..26..1897..Liverpool. This may eliminate him.We have got the records of those baptisms...but can't link the parents, children or godparents in any of the censuses, or records. I have heard that poor Catholic families would rather pay for a christening rather than register the birth. A large % are never registered. Have checked the incoming pasenger lists..in case his family went abroad and only he came back...nothing. As his eldest son James 1904, was so adament, that he came from Berwick upon Tweed...not a place name you would easily make up, I thought James his father may have mentioned it, as he was home longest with him..apart from the war. Searched up there......an awful lot of Millers, but no idea how to link. The Miller / Reilley parents are probably right....but how to be sure. The family were poor..his daughter Mary 1897, put down her future husband's address, on her marriage cert. to save money on the bans.Mary's grandchildren know nothing at all about her siblings, or parents, and they all lived locally. Thanks for all your help...Branwen